LMS vs Gearhead "Canned Tunes" Comparison

[MHW100]

"Some?" What's concerning is how does a great product & service go bad all of a sudden? Usually the other way around. There's other forums too, there's a ton of people with LMS issues, not some. But if you read this thread I am not out to bad-mouth them or disparage in any way. Anthony at LMS deserves to be their CCSO, Chief Customer Service Officer, he's amazing! But they did nothing to resolve my issues.

I'm not sure what a "ton" of people represents statistically or how that is that any different to "some" but clearly there is evidence of affected cars. Thankfully, my v11 gremlins corrected themselves without having to run the scaled back v14.

I ask my self the same question - how does roughly 10 yrs of trouble free motoring suddenly go south? Why not just roll back to the last known good configuration for those affected cars?

 

[MHW100]

You read the traction issue part?

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I did. I didn't read if that was proven to be the cause though.

 

[StealBlueSho]

I did. I didn't read if that was proven to be the cause though.

The cause of what? The ****** 60ft's? Spinning will greatly impact your 60ft times.

I have one time slip from LMS and one from GH on the day with almost identical 60fts.. the Gearhead tune was .15x faster on that run.

If you look at the DYNO between the two tunes, that increase in ET is about right... The GH tune has about 25+ more HP than the LMS.. which based on historical information is around .2 tenths faster.

 

[StealBlueSho]

 

[MHW100]

The cause of what? The ****** 60ft's? Spinning will greatly impact your 60ft times.

I have one time slip from LMS and one from GH on the day with almost identical 60fts.. the Gearhead tune was .15x faster on that run.

If you look at the DYNO between the two tunes, that increase in ET is about right... The GH tune has about 25+ more HP than the LMS.. which based on historical information is around .2 tenths faster.

SBS- "The load difference is substantial as well between the tunes. I asked Matt about it, he said we are pushing the turbos past efficiency so there is less return on the extra boost. LMS ran much less load which would be easier on the motor..."

Perhaps the .2 tenths isn't worth the extra load on the engine's longevity for a daily driver? I appreciate that is significant to you since you are racing however.

I wonder if LMS's long and successful track record has been because they don't push the engine beyond a breaking point? When I had the v11 issue Anthony indicated that the some of the issues arise because they won't remove or compromise safeguards that would otherwise cause the engine harm. Are other tuners removing those safeguards or are compromising the drivetrain for the sake of avoiding the v11 issues?

 

[mattr66]

SBS- "The load difference is substantial as well between the tunes. I asked Matt about it, he said we are pushing the turbos past efficiency so there is less return on the extra boost. LMS ran much less load which would be easier on the motor..."

Perhaps the .2 tenths isn't worth the extra load on the engine's longevity for a daily driver? I appreciate that is significant to you since you are racing however.

I wonder if LMS's long and successful track record has been because they don't push the engine beyond a breaking point? When I had the v11 issue Anthony indicated that the some of the issues arise because they won't remove or compromise safeguards that would otherwise cause the engine harm. Are other tuners removing those safeguards or are compromising the drivetrain for the sake of avoiding the v11 issues?

What safeguards would this be?

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[mattr66]

I would say the GH tune has more safeguards than stock. No cold temp fuel pressure issues etc....

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[StealBlueSho]

SBS- "The load difference is substantial as well between the tunes. I asked Matt about it, he said we are pushing the turbos past efficiency so there is less return on the extra boost. LMS ran much less load which would be easier on the motor..."

Perhaps the .2 tenths isn't worth the extra load on the engine's longevity for a daily driver? I appreciate that is significant to you since you are racing however.

I wonder if LMS's long and successful track record has been because they don't push the engine beyond a breaking point? When I had the v11 issue Anthony indicated that the some of the issues arise because they won't remove or compromise safeguards that would otherwise cause the engine harm. Are other tuners removing those safeguards or are compromising the drivetrain for the sake of avoiding the v11 issues?

Thats the rub right? Is the extra .2 tenths worth it? Problem is when you push the little turbos past their efficiency you get diminishing returns. It all depends on goals right? I don't really daily my SHO, but when I am on the street, I rarely ever go WOT with it, I tend to drive like an old man most of the time.

LMS has a long history of not plowing through components on cars with their tunes. Their tunes historically have been some of the safest ones out there. If you look through my history of posts with tuners, I can say that in general LMS gets better ET's at the loads they run than most tuners. A really good "bang for your buck" if you will.

Gearhead doesn't have the history that LMS has, but that is only something time can prove out if GH is just as "safe".

I will venture to say this... if you are willing to install a bigger fuel pump and run ethanol blended fuels then your goals are most likely different than someone throwing on a tune and exhaust.

 

[StealBlueSho]

To answer your questions directly about the V11 issue and tuners "tuning around the problem".. the answer is that the V11 tune is a summer oriented tune. LMS is just running too rich at the load they are running for the stock HPFP. Colder air compounds the problem since their tune doesn't adapt for it. Gearhead's tune will pull back the boost when the air is colder cause you are already hitting desired load. LMS will start to close the throttle. Different approaches but one works better than the other as preventing low fuel pressure issues.. aka stuttering/hesitation.

But from LMS standpoint.. if they roll back to another tune with less power then people get pissy about it and complain. The tune will run fine in the warmer months no doubt... might be worth loading the 91 octane V11 tune when its colder out.

 

[mattr66]

At sea level even on e85 and max power to this point, the turbos showed no sign of overspeed damage when they were pulled off my car last week for upgrade. I don't run stock turbos over 220000 rpms. From an efficiency standpoint, 200000 rpms is where they start to suffer efficiency losses. Above that, the compressor can move more air than the exhaust side can get rid of...

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[MHW100]

What safeguards would this be?

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Those found in the stock PCM I believe.

 

[mattr66]

Those found in the stock PCM I believe.

Not trying to be a d_ck but there are limits that can be raised, those that should not be raised, and even some that should be added to the factory strategy that never existed... Making blanket statements are just ways of making people feel better about what they have available to them.

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[MHW100]

Not trying to be a d_ck but there are limits that can be raised, those that should not be raised, and even some that should be added to the factory strategy that never existed... Making blanket statements are just ways of making people feel better about what they have available to them.

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I certainly don't possess any expertise in these matters so could not comment if any of those statements are true. My limited knowledge only allows me to review external evidence such as the longevity of the tuner and the factory settings themselves as not causing blowups. Beyond that I defer to the pros here to gain interesting insights.

 

[MHW100]

To answer your questions directly about the V11 issue and tuners "tuning around the problem".. the answer is that the V11 tune is a summer oriented tune. LMS is just running too rich at the load they are running for the stock HPFP. Colder air compounds the problem since their tune doesn't adapt for it. Gearhead's tune will pull back the boost when the air is colder cause you are already hitting desired load. LMS will start to close the throttle. Different approaches but one works better than the other as preventing low fuel pressure issues.. aka stuttering/hesitation.

But from LMS standpoint.. if they roll back to another tune with less power then people get pissy about it and complain. The tune will run fine in the warmer months no doubt... might be worth loading the 91 octane V11 tune when its colder out.

Makes sense. LMS needs to tackle the cold air issue...evidently like GH seems to have mastered.

 

[mattr66]

I certainly don't possess any expertise in these matters so could not comment if any of those statements are true. My limited knowledge only allows me to review external evidence such as the longevity of the tuner and the factory settings themselves as not causing blowups. Beyond that I defer to the pros here to gain interesting insights.

Limits are being raised if you are running more than stock power....

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[subdocgtp]

The only number you really need to look at is mile per hour through the quarter 60 foot reaction time and quarter mile time are all human related them take into consideration ambient temperature elevation or even if the track is prepped or not

 

[Dieselcircuit]

Any new news on that IC?

 

[sanman]

I'm talking to Anthony now about the V11 tune i'm having major issue with hesitation on WOT. Anthony's answer was "This is caused by the high pressure fuel pump pressure dropping because these cars are physically making so much power that they need more fuel system." LMS gave me a winter tune has anybody tried the new tune i did not installed yet= looking for some feedback please, i read the new tune is safer but not as much power?.....I've also read GH has fixed the shifting and hesitation problem with there tune if so please let me know..... Thanks

 

[76FoMoCo]

The only number you really need to look at is mile per hour through the quarter 60 foot reaction time and quarter mile time are all human related them take into consideration ambient temperature elevation or even if the track is prepped or not

RT has nothing to do with 0-60 mph or 1/4 eta. unless your heads up racing.
this is a big miss understanding for new guys.

 

[76FoMoCo]

I'm talking to Anthony now about the V11 tune i'm having major issue with hesitation on WOT. Anthony's answer was "This is caused by the high pressure fuel pump pressure dropping because these cars are physically making so much power that they need more fuel system." LMS gave me a winter tune has anybody tried the new tune i did not installed yet= looking for some feedback please, i read the new tune is safer but not as much power?.....I've also read GH has fixed the shifting and hesitation problem with there tune if so please let me know..... Thanks

the new tune is label 93V11 but is NOT the same as the early V11 the shift points are not the same and the power is a noticeable less. going to put it on the dyno in the next few weeks.