It was a sad day...

[Nuke]

It was a sad yesterday. I raced some guy in a Forester yesterday, and got killed. I cried a little on the inside.

Anyway, where I live, the last light in town has 2 lanes that turn into one, and the road out of town is the highway leaving. I had the through lane. Took off, held it down, snapped off the perfect 7,000 RPM 1-2 shift. We were dead even until the start of the second gear pull, then the guy in the Forster looks over at me, and then just starts to walk away. All of a sudden he is 3 cars ahead, and the lanes merge together.

I am not quite sure what to say, other than I hope it was a turbo one. If it wasn't, I don't know what to do. The little Yamaha has heart, and I have tangled with things I knew were faster and lost, but this was pretty saddening.

Now, I am contemplating if there is anything I can do to help my little V8 perform better. Since I am new here, I feel compelled to say that yes, the cams are welded. I already did an intake on it, but I could probably build a better one. It also has some exhaust work done. Cleaned the flashing out of the y-pipe, replaced the flex pipe, removed the 3rd cat and resonator, and replaced the mufflers and the piping going into them. The shop spent a whole afternoon size matching everything, and making sure it was all smooth and clean inside.

I do have a nice SHO Source UDP I need to have installed. If anyone in the Reno or Sacramento area knows how, and has the tools, hit me up. It would also probably help to take apart the intake and clean it well. IMRC is working as near as I can tell, and the little Yamaha wails just fine with the secondaries open. I could also put some Mustang COPs on it, and new plugs. And a Lightning MAF. Go for a tune too. Only thing that sucks is I only can get 91 octane here. Sure, I can get 100 pump in Reno, but that is like 9 bucks a gallon, and isn't really practical for daily driving.

So, do you guys have any suggestions? Or kind words to soothe the burn? Really, if money was no object, I would buy the last NESHO 5 speed conversion, and put the spare Eaton M90 blower I have on it. But somehow, I don't see that happening. Oh well, there is always the Wagon to accost.....

 

[sperold]

You are looking at this the wrong way around. Rather than lamenting your loss, consider the other view.
Depending on the year, a guy with a $20,000.00 plus (yes it was a turbo) awd small bodied car raced an old Taurus and only managed to edge it out by a few lengths.
I doubt if he is feeling good about himself.

 

[Mikey]

Had to be a turbo, the NA's are dogs. Personally after I sort my v8 I'm considering adding a 50-100shot of spray, just for that type of situation.

Good point sperold, it's like my dodge ram vs the kid with the southern comfort Chevy. I say, "how much did that cost?!" No BS add a zero to the price of my ram. 3600 vs 36000 and " are you gonna use that or just shine the tires and rims lol"

You gotta be cool when driving a mythical unicorn like the sho. I like to just give them a Lil taste, back off, leave em wondering. (I know I just talked about spray) I'll see my self out.

Happy holidays all!

 

[stephen newberg]

I echo what the others above have said. The UDP is worth a few horsepower, but depending on what you did with the intake, you could easily have lost more than that there if you did not go to some form of cold air in from the wheel well.

The problem is that the Gen III is not designed as a stoplight racer, like the Gen I and II were. Its designed to compete as a high speed cruiser. Ford was aiming at BMW when they put together the Gen III. Zero to sixty times are going to be from seven to seven and a half seconds. Quarter miles are going to be above fifteen. There is really not a lot you can alter there short of very serious changes.

pax, smn

 

[Mikey]

And let's not forget awd vs fwd. Huge traction advantage to the Subaru

 

[stephen newberg]

Very true. Those Subaru AWD turbos are certainly not slouches. I have to admit that is my only negative really, for the SHO. I wish it were AWD. My daily driver these days is and AWD Porsche and like my previous AWD, a Talon from long ago, the ability of the vehicle to stick to the road and apply power is just remarkable. Back when the AWD Talon was new, which would be 25 years ago or so now, it was cleaning up so totally in the SCCA events that they just took it out of its normal class and created a separate start for it. AWD is, without a doubt, a winner for a performance vehicle.

pax, smn

 

[Nuke]

OK, I'll start out and add something I somehow forgot to add in the original post. The Subaru in question looked like it was a brand new one. A 15 if not a 16 year model.

And interestingly enough traction wasn't an issue. My SHO won't spin and he didn't get in it hard until we were well rolling. But yeah I paid like 2200 bucks for it, and rock it like a hurricane. The looks I get from people because of the noise that a Taurus can make was well worth the price of admission.

I just am not used to getting taken like that. Usually I am the one handing out spankings. It just surprised me. I didn't pay any attention to what model it was, but I would be devastated if it was a 170HP NA Subaru and I got killed like that.

So apparently I need to install the UDP, and reengineer the intake. Really, if someone had a nice MAF adapter so I can run piping out to the fenderwell, I would be more than happy to buy it.

Speaking of not a stop light racer, I have really noticed that. I don't think the torque converter stall is near high enough. I think it needs about a 3500 RPM stall to be really effective. As it sits, I can't even spin the tires.

And lastly, I actually own an AWD Talon. It is a 90, the first year they were made. I got it as a high school graduation present with 8000 original miles on it.Ran is as my DD for a few years going to college, and parked it. It could use some freshening, but in the end, It still only had 50000 miles on the clock. Runs like a bat out of ****. All LSDs in it. Can't spin it on pavement. Tried, and now it could use a clutch and tranny. On the snow, it is unreal, since it will spin all 4 tires in unison. Raced my M90 blown Bonneville with it once. I had cleared the intersection in the time it took the Bonneville to make it through the crosswalk.

 

[Nuke]

Here is a video of the car. I brake launch it, but it doesn't really help. Seems slow to me. What think you guys?

 

[stephen newberg]

I tried counting it, but did not do well. It seemed to me to be about eight seconds to sixty. That is a bit slow, but not horrid.

You still have your 90 Talon AWD. Very cool. Mine was a 91, ordered it for the start of that year's deliveries. They were certainly quite the machine for their time. You should get yours back on the road to do car shows and such, if it is in good shape, which it sounds to be. What colour was it? Mine was the metallic blue one.

pax, smn

 

[E1]

A bit of hope/comforting news for you.

Back in the old days, we at the V8SHO.com group came to understand that the fastest V8 SHO's were the ones that DIDN'T spin off the line.

Uncle Larry's car could lay 100 feet of bacon strips but couldn't get out of its own way.

Now, before you go reinventing the wheel, you had better have access to a good programmer. Gutting the exhaust and 're-engineering' the intake is only going to set your CPU program at odds with the new found mystery airflow patterns. It's NOT going to adapt - it's going to fall on its face.

THAT said, I think I have a SHOSHOP cold air box around here somewhere. If you are interested in it I think we could work something out. It came off Don Mallinson's old 96 SHO (which I now own). It will give you the cone air filter but at the same time it separates the filter from the engine compartment pretty well so you won't have a 'hot air intake' like a ***** cone filter in the engine bay will leave you with.

Honestly, the best intake setup is the tried and true 'Porterized' intake.
http://v8sho.com/SHO/Porterization.html

 

[stephen newberg]

I agree with Eric, some form of 'porterized' intake is the best way to go for getting air to the motor, and amazingly is the least expensive at the same time. That does not happen often.

pax, smn

 

[Nuke]

I tried counting it, but did not do well. It seemed to me to be about eight seconds to sixty. That is a bit slow, but not horrid.

You still have your 90 Talon AWD. Very cool. Mine was a 91, ordered it for the start of that year's deliveries. They were certainly quite the machine for their time. You should get yours back on the road to do car shows and such, if it is in good shape, which it sounds to be. What colour was it? Mine was the metallic blue one.

pax, smn

Well, for what it is worth, there was 500 lbs worth of fat guys in the car, I am at 4500 feet in elevation, I live in the PRK, and am running 91 octane winter blend gas. So none of those things help it out. I think I will redo the intake, and look into a programmer. This shifting at 6000-6500 RPMs is silly, and a good tune should help it out.

And yeah, I still have my Talon. It is black, with a silver bottom. I swapped most of the parts out for Eclipse stuff, since an Eclipse was a dream car of mine. It is in decent shape, but could use the hood, bumper and spoiler repainted. It runs fine, and I drive it on occasion still. Quite possibly my best **** story was in that car.... but that story is for another day.

EDIT: I have been meaning to ask you, what is the pax,smn thing you write at the bottom of each of your posts?

A bit of hope/comforting news for you.

Back in the old days, we at the V8SHO.com group came to understand that the fastest V8 SHO's were the ones that DIDN'T spin off the line.

Uncle Larry's car could lay 100 feet of bacon strips but couldn't get out of its own way.

Now, before you go reinventing the wheel, you had better have access to a good programmer. Gutting the exhaust and 're-engineering' the intake is only going to set your CPU program at odds with the new found mystery airflow patterns. It's NOT going to adapt - it's going to fall on its face.

THAT said, I think I have a SHOSHOP cold air box around here somewhere. If you are interested in it I think we could work something out. It came off Don Mallinson's old 96 SHO (which I now own). It will give you the cone air filter but at the same time it separates the filter from the engine compartment pretty well so you won't have a 'hot air intake' like a ***** cone filter in the engine bay will leave you with.

Honestly, the best intake setup is the tried and true 'Porterized' intake.
http://v8sho.com/SHO/Porterization.html

Tell me about it. I understand the traction thing way better than most. Between the AWD Talon, and having a blown FWD Bonneville, I get the traction thing.

I do not have any programmer. What would you recommend? I have been wanting one anyway to fix my shift points, and to help with the mods that I have done. And perhaps someone to help me tune the darn thing, since I don't know the first thing about it.

The SHOShop intake sounds nice. I like the look, and understand they perform well. I like cheap, but I also understand the mantra that "Speed costs money. How fast can you afford to go?" So I am not above buying go fast parts. Where I have come from, the stock intake box was always considered restrictive and I thought it would be best to make it go the way of the dodo bird. I get the Porterizing thing, and think that will be my next step, since I have another air box and some spare 3 inch hose laying around. I'll just pull the car in the garage, pop off the wheel, fender well, and remove the saxa-cone. Then put the old airbox back on, and run the hose out to the fender.

Really, I thought something like this would be the best bet:


Throw the whole stock intake away, get a MAF adapter, run a hose out to the fender, and put a ginormous cone filter in the fender well. And if I get a tuner, I should be able to program to run something like a 80mm Lightning MAF. Do you think that is worthwhile? IIRC, MAF adapters for those are relatively easy to find.

The other thing I would like to do is go to the Mustang COPs, and put new plugs in it. And while it is apart, clean the intake manifold. And install a oil catch tank so the intake doesn't get gummed so easily.

You guys tell me what I should do to make it run better. I'm listening.

 

[stephen newberg]

Pax is just Latin for peace, and smn are my initials. Its just a fast closing salutation. I have used it forever and never really think about it any more.

If you picked yours up for $1800 and it is in basically very good shape, as I think you indicated, putting in a few grand for any needed repairs is a bargin, I suspect, if you can keep the car for the next decade or two. It is eventually going to be worth a fair price as it gets more rare, as it was unusual even when it was first built.

And that is worth keeping in mind when making your alterations. Keeping it close to stock, at least visually, is likely to make it worth more over time than not.

pax, smn

 

[Nuke]

I picked up the SHO in question for 2200 about 4 or 5 years ago. It had about 120K on the clock. It has just over 180K on it now. It doesn't "need" anything. We drive it on a daily basis. I love it to death. The cams were welded a long time ago. It is a 3 owner car. I got it from the guy who bought it from it's first owner.

It could use a few things. A tune up would be a good start. I would like some help tearing the manifold off, and replacing the plugs and COPs. I'd also like to put the UDP I bought on it. A little tune would be nice. Truthfully, It could use a paint job. Not essential, but it was in a really bad dust storm last year, and it shows.

The only visual mod I have done to it is putting a SLO spoilerless trunk on it. I think the stock one looks silly. I'd like to find a nice lip spoiler for it. The only other mod I have seriously considered was a Gen 4 front end.

I love the car to death, and drive the wheels off of it. I just don't know if it is worth putting the money into, since I can buy a lower mileage one for less than I can fix all the little things for. I think between the tranny and TQ I want, and a paint job, I would be in about 5 grand. And I don't think I can justify that.

I do think I will do a porterized intake. And probably figure out how to tune it up and put the UDP on. And get some sort of tune for it. Beyond that, I think it is a run it until it dies type thing. I do know that a completely rebuilt high mileage car can be amazing though. I have a 92 Prelude that has 250K on the clock and runs and drives better than new. But it has a *ton* of work done to it.

The good news is maybe I can do it little by little. Thanks all for your help and thoughts. They are appreciated.

 

[Mikey]

Bet you a dollar those butterflies are caked. I used brake clean and sandpaper to clean mine. After they were clean I would stand the assembly up and **** each butterfly and it's shaft. Leave it stand over night and let the **** work onto the shaft (I know) . Flip it over and **** the shaft the other direction. I did this back and forth for a week. This relieved a lot more stress on the operation of the butterflies. I used a hi-temp synthetic spray ****. It's designed for bakery oven casters and withstands 6or800 farenheit.

 

[Nuke]

You would win that bet. I don't think the intake has been cleaned since the cams were welded. And that was at like 60000 miles. I don't think it has been tuned up either. So it should be done. I think to clean it up to start with, I will use Aero Kroil on it. If you haven't used it, it is amazing stuff. I do think the high temp stuff is a great idea after it is all cleaned up.

And I haven't been a great steward of if. Checked the oil after a few thousand miles, and it was down 4 quarts. It seems it is either leaking or burning about a quart every thousand miles. So that is much worse than I thought for.

I want to do an oil catch can on it and see if that helps any, but it may be getting pretty weak. I love the car, so I will probably have to figure out to fix it. It just sucks. I don't want to lose the car, but it may be cheaper to get another one than to fix mine.

 

[Nuke]

Want your guys thoughts. I check the fuel mileage on the car regularly. As of late, the car feels sluggish, and is getting crap for fuel mileage.

Yes, it could use plugs and COPs. And the intake being cleaned. It does have a new air filter, and a proper intake coming. (hopefully) No CEL. No misses, and IMRC is working. Transmission is not slipping, and is shifting fine.

I am wondering if it needs O2 sensors, or of the cats are getting plugged. Any thoughts, guys?

 

[SHOdded]

Pulled codes? Codes can be set without CELs. Does it rev freely? If the cats are plugged, checking their temperature after a hard run is an easy way to tell. Should definitely not be "glowing". Also can tap on them (rubber mallet), listen for any rattling or abnormal sounds. Does pulling the MAF connector make any difference to the way it runs?

 

[Mikey]

Clean the MAF sensor, clean your idle air bypass valve. If that doesn't help....yeah 02 sensors next. IMHO rarely seen plugged cats. On the gen 1 or 2, currently learning about the gen3 so take my advice with a grain of salt. Best of luck, the3.0 is about as close to bulletproof ad u can get so don't lose sleep. Best of luck mate, keep us posted.

 

[Nuke]

Pulled codes? Codes can be set without CELs. Does it rev freely? If the cats are plugged, checking their temperature after a hard run is an easy way to tell. Should definitely not be "glowing". Also can tap on them (rubber mallet), listen for any rattling or abnormal sounds. Does pulling the MAF connector make any difference to the way it runs?

I pulled codes when I lost a COP a few days after my original post. There was nothing but the misfire code form the bad COP. It revs freely, and sounds really healthy. When it dries out here, I'll crawl underneath and tap the cats and see if anything is loose.

I have not had a chance to pull the MAF wires. What am I looking for if I pull it? Soon, I should have another MAF coming with a CAI. I also got some MAF cleaner I am going to run through the one on it now as soon as I get some free time.

Clean the MAF sensor, clean your idle air bypass valve. If that doesn't help....yeah 02 sensors next. IMHO rarely seen plugged cats. On the gen 1 or 2, currently learning about the gen3 so take my advice with a grain of salt. Best of luck, the3.0 is about as close to bulletproof ad u can get so don't lose sleep. Best of luck mate, keep us posted.

Will clean the MAF, and how do I clean the AIC? I know what one is, but where is it on a V8 SHO? Is it on top of the throttle body?
Otherwise, I think I will throw O2 sensors at it. And tune it up. It needs that.