1997 SHO V8 - "Runs Hot"

[Bull Geek]

So my recent purchase, a 1997 Ford Taurus SHO w/the 3.4 V8 (Vin 'N')...from what the prior owner said, it runs hot and "may need a head gasket".

Reviewing the service records, I see...
4/22/2011:
*P0411-Diagnostic performed using Ford flowchart. Found air injection pumop works. Air is getting pumped. Unable to find any problem in system to explain why CEL illuminated. No test for air diverter. Cleared code/reset CEL.
*6.5 qts of High Mileage Shell 10W-N.

6/15/2011:
*Customer Concern: Car started running hot and pouring antifreeze. Immediately shut car down before got to H. Towed in.
Added water to cooling system to Test. Pressure tested system, finding leak coming from upper rad hose extension from connection to engine.
*Replaced Short upper rad hose from connector to engine (not to rad), added Antifreeze.
*Fixed high idle issue. Foam gasket stuck in throttle allowing unmetered air in.

7/22/2011:
*Customer Concern: car began running hot again. Shut car down, towed in. Leaks Antifreeze quickly. Customer states only leak coolant when car is moving (**note, to me this says car is under load, gas pedal is applied, I think this is a clue***).

Shop states:We replaced upper rad hose previous visit.
During inspection, found coolant reservoir leaking coolant. Recommend replacing it. Believe there may be a head gasket leak. Recommend running block test. After engine run a very short time, a lot of pressure in cooling system.

* PS pump leaking, no repair done(**already saw fix on net for this, no big deal**)
* Replaced coolant reservoir with F6DZ-8A080-B. Added coolant.
* Block test: Performed block test with confirmed hydro-carbons in cooling system. Far most likely cause is head gasket leak. Compression from cylinders bleeding over into the cooling system resulting in far too much pressure than cooling system is designed to handle causing repeated items leaking. (***Is this plausible???***?) Recommend replacing head gasket.

So right now I'm puzzled what to do.

Do I:
A.) Go ahead, dismantle the upper part of the engine to check if a cam weld is needed, and if so, do the cam welding? Then do the cooling system repair/diagnosis.
B.) Try to diagnose the cause of the cooling system/"head gasket" issue first?

Option B means that if my cooling system work involves running the engine, I risk killing the engine if the cams are not welded.

Regardless...where do I even start with diagnosing this cooling system issue instead of throwing parts at it like Greenville Auto Repair did.

Thanks for any assistance and sorry for the long winded reply.
Nick

 

[kevinspann]

Before doing anything I'd check to make sure it's welded. If its not, and has a bad HG or something similar, you'd be better off finding A welded motor to put in.

 

[BamSHO]

Yes I agree, pull the front valve cover, if cams arent weld, find another motor and have the cams welded if not already done before you swap them out. I think, but not sure, couple guys here in the V8 section have a spare motor. Oh yeah, welcome to the world of owning a SHO.



Brian Michael
98 black Gen3

 

[stephen newberg]

Though you certainly need to determine if the cam sprockets have been welded, the reports you have listed above indicate not a cam problem, but rather a leaking head gasket and that will need to be replaced regardless. If the cam welding has not been done so far, you can do it while replacing the head gasket (and in fact, might as well at that point replace both of them, just in case, as you are in for a penny already, so go for the pound where there...).

None of this, so far, indicates any need to replace the motor.

The 0411 is like the one I get occasionally, in that the air pump is working fine, so it is being caused by the relay. You can replace the relay, or you can just clear it and ignore it (which is my current path because I am lazy and there is no running issue involved).

pax, smn

 

[Bull Geek]

I want to keep the car purchase price + repairs under 2500 on this one since the car probably isn't worth a nickle over 2500, so except for the cam weld, I am going to try to do this work all on my own. I may have to buy tools, but I won't factor that into the cost. And I'll drop off what needs welding to FPS in Atlanta while I'm visiting my grandparents.

Sounds like I'm going to learn how to pull heads off a car. And i get to start on a V8 SHO. Kind of wish I was learning on a Vulcan V6, but you gota start somewhere...

I'll start the project later this month (need to finish working on getting my 87 wagon mobile again. Step 1 will be checking for welds. Step 2 will be taking out the heads.

Thanks guys.

 

[tqmx1]

Just a quick cheep one, Replace the thremostat. If it's stuck closed or just a little open it would cause a overheat.

That's a whole bunch cheeper than pulling the heads.

 

[SHOMEX]

Check the water pump belt too; I have seen a few going bad or just worn down that will cause overheating problems too. (cheap part and super easy to replace)

 

[Racer X]

I bet there's a ton of leaves and shit between the radiator and the condenser. I bet if you remove the upper radiator support, and hose all that crap out, you'll be in a better place.

 

[Bull Geek]

Took off the appearance cover. Was surprised to find that the belt on the water pump is good, tension is good. The serpentine belt looks aged but works.

I peeked inbetween the rad and the condenser. Surprised that there was just air, no leaves or other junk to be found. I think someone's been in there and cleaned it out before. Usually you expect to see leaves, dirt, etc all crammed in there. This car just sat out in a driveway with no trees for the past few years so maybe that's why?

Would a stuck thermostat result in the hydrocarbons showing in the cooling system on a bleed down test?

 

[SHOZ123]

Could be a bad radiator cap, bad coolant tank, a fan not working or a clogged radiator.

Head gasket would be on the end of the list.

 

[Bull Geek]

Could be a bad radiator cap, bad coolant tank, a fan not working or a clogged radiator.

Head gasket would be on the end of the list.

Cap is new (tested good), tank is new (also tested good), fan clicks on, radiator is clean

 

[SHOZ123]

The radiator is clean externally?

Could be a bad ECT too. Not turning the fans in when it should.

But rereading the first post seems to be they have already diagnosed the head gaskets as the issue. It may have warped the heads too. I once saw a V8 ran into the ground out in the desert from over heating. It's not pretty.

 

[stephen newberg]

From his reports, it certainly sounded like it was a head gasket to me.

pax, smn

 

[SHOZ123]

BTW non OEM head gaskets are available out there if you look hard enough. They are on ebay.

 

[Racer X]

HC's in the coolant?

Head gasket failure is the only way I know of for that to happen. Either that, or someone's been spiking the coolant with gasoline.

 

[Bull Geek]

Heh I found the HGs you mentioned Paul...also found some on a place called RCM Automotive.

This is going to be a fun project. Learning how to drop the subframe w/o a lift. I am going to need a cherry picker and some nice thick chain or something.

 

[SHOZ123]

I used 1/4" chain and a hydraulic engine crane/lift. Just be sure you are on level ground. If you have two sets of jack stands. One tall and one regular you can do it with floor jacks.

 

[Bull Geek]

Yup the garage slab is on level ground. I have 2 GM Goodwrench stands, and 2 Torin Aluminum flat base stands.

IIRC, you had taken the bumper cover and impact foam off, wrapped the chain around metal bumper and lifted up.

 

[SHOZ123]

That really is too much weight for the crane but yes I have done it that way. I had a really heavy duty steel dolly that I had a 4x4 wood frame built on.
Take off the wheels.
Loosen the subframe bolts.
Lower the subframe onto the dolly.
Remove subframe bolts.
Lift body up leaving the motor on the dolly.

 

[My_Silver_SHO]

Yup the garage slab is on level ground. I have 2 GM Goodwrench stands, and 2 Torin Aluminum flat base stands.

IIRC, you had taken the bumper cover and impact foam off, wrapped the chain around metal bumper and lifted up.

I left the foam in place. There slots in the bumper, I ran the chain through the slots and lifted. I used a 2 ton lift.

The biggest hassle is all the stut you have to disconnect. And the fluids that get spilled. I like to keep change pans ready for spill, cat litter absorbs fluids quickly.

Make sure you remove the 4 flex plate bolts and other bolts on the bottom of transmission.

Here's a good checklist. http://www.v8sho.com/SHO/V8SHOEngineRemoval.htm