Got rid of ABS, but wrong...

[shoon]

Ahh ok. Well, to remove the system you need to swap out your master cylinder for one designed with specs for a non abs car.
Try and get your hands on a new master cylinder; their are 2 designs: for ABS and without ABS. Check rockauto.com

 

[Art5]

Ahh ok. Well, to remove the system you need to swap out your master cylinder for one designed with specs for a non abs car.
Try and get your hands on a new master cylinder; their are 2 designs: for ABS and without ABS. Check rockauto.com

Well, that's what I was asking about but quikSHOilver posted a link where Doug suggests to stay with stock master cylinder.
So, here i am getting confused now.
Was thinking all day today about this whole thing with bias plugs and all. This car used to have Cobra brakes before I bought it, so that probably explains why it still has plugs, but now it has 11.6" up front and I had a feeling that one time in cold winter days rear caught up before the front, going in a turn. So maybe plugs are the problem? But then, why right front brake barely works?I mean I don't even here it works, not even going backwards.

 

[Art5]

here's something you need to check out SHO DUDE (Doug Lewis) posted

http://www.shoforum.com/showthread.php?t=84461&highlight=abs+remove

By the way, did you get it done the way Doug described?

 

[shoon]

Looking at the 2 different master cylinders, the one without ABS has 4 seperate connections for brake lines. If im looking at the pictures right, the one with ABS has 2.

 

[Art5]

Looking at the 2 different master cylinders, the one without ABS has 4 seperate connections for brake lines. If im looking at the pictures right, the one with ABS has 2.

I know, I was looking at it too, but what about brake booster? And in his post, Doug claims that no matter what you do, rears will still be a problem. If I understand correctly, he says that both master cylinders are typically the same, it just matters of how you plumb it.
I don't know, if someone with this experience could chime in..., because there is some logic versus experience.

 

[Art5]

Does anyone know the other way to loose pressure at the rear brakes?

 

[Bill Strobel]

You need to plumb in a variable proportioning valve that will control the pressure to the rear brakes

 

[Art5]

You need to plumb in a variable proportioning valve that will control the pressure to the rear brakes

whats a Variable Proportioning valve?

 

[quikSHOilver]

By the way, did you get it done the way Doug described?

Unfortuantely haven't gotten into with my 1990 turbo project just yet as I am still working on completing my 1994 one first...however yes I got myself wilwood proportional valve and plan do exactly route as described by Doug for 1990 ones.

 

[quikSHOilver]

Looking at the 2 different master cylinders, the one without ABS has 4 seperate connections for brake lines. If im looking at the pictures right, the one with ABS has 2.

That why it may be better idea to stay with ABS MC than route more lines or plug the unnecessary port as non abs got 4 ports...you would just need to route the primary to tee for each in front, then secondary to adjustable proportional valve then to rear and tee it off to each rear.

I know, I was looking at it too, but what about brake booster? And in his post, Doug claims that no matter what you do, rears will still be a problem. If I understand correctly, he says that both master cylinders are typically the same, it just matters of how you plumb it.
I don't know, if someone with this experience could chime in..., because there is some logic versus experience.

Yes you need a adjustable proportional valve like this...
http://www.wilwood.com/Images/MasterCylinders/Master Cylinder Photos-Large/260-8419-lg.jpg

that what I got one for my 1990.

Also got a friend who use wilwood proportional valve and deleted whole height sensing bias valve in rear on his 1992 and works great.

 

[93rev2sev]

...got a friend who use wilwood proportional valve and deleted whole height sensing bias valve in rear on his 1992 and works great.

The smart people will correct me if I'm wrong, but the only reason a proportioning valve would not be optimal (even when adjusted properly) is when towing something. Since there's so much extra weight on the rear under these circumstances, you'll want the extra braking back there. I suppose since it's adjustable, you can crank it up when towing.

 

[Art5]

The smart people will correct me if I'm wrong, but the only reason a proportioning valve would not be optimal (even when adjusted properly) is when towing something. Since there's so much extra weight on the rear under these circumstances, you'll want the extra braking back there. I suppose since it's adjustable, you can crank it up when towing.

I think you're right, but when my friend that drives trucks and cargo vans most of his life helped me re-doing the whole brake lining in one of my SHOs, I ended up totalling it.
Passenger car and sports cars used on public streets is not the case.

 

[Art5]

Today, I noticed that when my brakes were cold, they worked the right way as soon as I started testing it and it started getting hot, it all went back to back wheels again and fronts didn't even lock up anymore. That makes me think that I might of had some air in the system + most of the pressure went back to rear wheels.I guess, I might just get under my red SHO tomorrow and try taking those pieces I am missing to replace bias plugs with . Or just wait some time and get aftermarket valve later.

 

[Art5]

What do you guys think? If I was to put proportioning valva right after master cylinder, would I need to get rid of the ohter valve at the back of the car, or it doesn't matter anymore, since it works full blast right now?

 

[Art5]

hi,I'm back again. Installed valve right after master cylinder and then T-ed from there and since in the back of my car i still have stock valve with bias plugs there, I didn't touch anything else. Well, I reduced pressure in the back, but here is a PROBLEM I have: left tire locks before the right one. I did bleed it bunch of times and doesn't seem like air is coming out of it. also, if I pump brakes 2 times , right tire will get better grip, but still not as perfect as the left one. Checked for leaks, and didn't find any.
What I have found is that my left side had regular caliper hose and right side has braided hose.
Anyone knows what could be wrong?

 

[93rev2sev]

Engineering is trial and error. You trialed you errored. It just isn't as easy as removing some stuff and presto it works. The factory system was engineered to work with ABS. You have 2 choices

1. Put back all the ABS Stuff and return the plumbing to stock
2. Get ready to spend a lot of time and money finding something that will work without ABS and 4 wheel discs.

Egineering is NOT trial and error. It's purpose is to PREVENT trial and error.

You need someone that knows how to work on brakes. You aren't it. Sorry, but this is a life and death issue. And I'm not talking about YOUR life. I'm talking about the life of everyone you share the roads with.

I had symptoms similar to yours when I bought my 67' Fairlane with 4-wheel drum brakes. I replaced the entire system with a wilwood kit using all new lines.

If you have someone with you that knows how to work on brakes and you still want to delete the ABS, then buy a master cylinder from Autozone for an 89. It should come with THIS brake pressure reducing valve...follow this diagram.

2B091

**DZ-2B091-A

Valve - Brake Pressure Reducing (NOT AVAILABLE)

PRIMARY, W/O ANTI-LOCK, 1989 ; Taurus

Here's the 89 Disc Brake Master Cylinder. Note the part number I listed above and where it's installed. This will not be there on an ABS car.

Here's the MC on a rear disc ABS car. Note the lack of pressure reducing valves.

 

[Art5]

thanks for the diagramm. appreciate it. Don't be afraid, I don't drive this car at all. I crashed my 92 like that, but I wasn't the one who did brakes in that car.

I just can't understand why pressure to my front wheels goes mostly to left wheel, even thoughit is reduced from the back now and this is the same line in the front that's feeding both calipers.
I just don't want to change master cylinder and have the same issue, if anything.

 

[Art5]

OK, this is official now!!! I got it working!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Anyway, I did just like Doug Lewis suggested:
I used stock master cylinder and aftermarket proportioning valve for rear brakes.
The reason why i had problems at my front brakes is because of whoever put that one stock brake hose on the left side. So now I still have braided hoses in the back and oem at the front. Will replace all of them with a new set as soon as I get some extra money for cobra upgrade, but first....body work.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!, I'm happy.
Thanks everyone for help!!!!!!1

 

[Bill Strobel]

Glad to hear you got it all working.