When 4 is not enough and she's tight

[Todd TCE]

Thought I'd pass the word that if you are considering a brake upgrade
and the new FSL caliper doesn't tickle your fancy for appearance sake,
there is now a new "Narrow" version of the BSL6. This caliper will
bolt directly to existing kits and is fit for a 1.1 rotor, however
with the proper pad spacers also fits all .81 rotor kits. Benefit is
that in all cases the outer body shell is the same or LESS than the
former BSL caliper! Shorter pistons and thinner pads make it all
happen. Yes, pad consumption will go up but if anyone has wished to
fit the mighty BSL6 behind the stock wheel you know it won't happen.
Until now.


Also, the Jr. kits are completed and ready for those who are or have been waiting for a caliper only upgrade to the "96 brake upgrade". With some help from Josh, together we have managed a solution to the stock slicer wheel issue also as well as the lager Gen 3 car. Call me for details!

Regards.

 

[ManySHOs]

Cool
What size are the pistons?

Ian

 

[Todd TCE]

All the kits hover in the 4sq" range.

4x1.62 FSL
2x1.75/2x1.38 BSL
2x1.62/4x1.12 BSL6

 

[CTOESHO]

$572 for 4POT Willwood brakes up front is an amazing price and upgrade to the 96 upgrade. Possible group buy if we get enough buyers???

 

[yamahaSHO]

Todd,

Where in Tempe are you located? I am back in Phoenix and I would like to stop by maybe tomorrow.

Thanks,

 

[SHOfun 93]

Todd,

So this upgrade will indeed work on slicers as well? The subject line had my mind in the gutter..(dips brain in clorox)

 

[shojuan]

SHOfun 93:
Todd,

So this upgrade will indeed work on slicers as well? The subject line had my mind in the gutter..(dips brain in clorox)

Call Todd for details he says hehe.

 

[PAracer]

I saw this setup at the Madison Convension Banquet. It looks great too me. Just to have and answer for the archives, what fitment issues will I have if I were to use the junior setup on the rear of my 1993 that allready has 11.6 rotors back there? It looks like it wont fit unless I space out the rear wheels.

I love those wilwood calipers. It took my father and myself less than 5 minutes to bleed all 4 wheels with just a soda can, some hose, and a foot on the brake pedal.

 

[Todd TCE]

Jason, call me. I'm at Broadway and Priest roughly in Tempe.

Others: the set up will NOT clear the slicers without some wheel spacers. Don't blame me, blame Ford and those damn wheels. Josh and I have looked at the idea of some spacers and he has one set done up now which were at the convention. His take is that the spacers will work with stock studs and the proper nuts.

I don't knwo about fitting to the rears. This was never the plan nor the idea anyhow. Buy a front kit and we'll talk about it.

Ooops, sorry dude, I see you like those wheels...my bad.

<small>[ July 22, 2003, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: Todd TCE ]</small>

 

[SHOck]

Todd-

Something I've never understood about the whole "sealed" conversation. Wilwood does in fact seal their pistons with a o-ring. Is this new caliper just to address those with terminal fears abouot durability, or is Wilwood agreeing that there is actually some benefit for street users to having true sealed pistons?

The new kits look good. I've been planning on doing a similar setup except with 12 x 1.10 rotors. Does the jr suffer from wheel face fitment issues only, or is there a hub clearance problem as well? I'm technically running different rims, but am aiming to be able to use the stockers during the winter. Now, my design involves using a deeper offset hat and a heat sheild for the LCA, so I won't be competing with you wink

 

[shojuan]

I'll put in my limited $.02 of knowledge before Todd replies with a more definitive answer. The sealed piston calipers have a "dust boot". A big part of why Wilwood is offering them is because of customer demand. Now everyone knows that those dust boots will burn off under track use. On the street there's going to be some benefit from reduced maintenance on the calipers. Without a dust boot gunk will find its way between the piston and piston bore. I don't really think this has been a serious problem for many people with the SHO Stoppers. Todd would definately know a **** of a lot better than I about that. I know that an old BaySHO member who had SHO Stoppers used to occasionally clean around the pistons with a toothbrush to clean those things.

Now the best of all worlds would be to have two sets of calipers. One sealed with dust boots for street with street pads and one unsealed for track with track pads. Really, that's not such a bad idea. Somebody who can afford to open track their car can afford to pick up an extra set of calipers. Probably overkill though. If you're going to occasionaly open track your car than the unsealed Wilwoods would be just fine. Of course anybody actually in the market for these fantastic brakes should just talk to Todd about it.

 

[Todd TCE]

Thanks Rick,well said. I won't make any claims I don't feel I can back up, as I see it this caliper is aimed right at those who sell calipers or kits WITH dust boots and is a marketing angle.

I've got so many kits out there on many cars today that the seal issue is just not that big of one to me anymore. There are a few in the 'salt belt' who consider good yearly cleanings or every couple of years purchase replacement calipers. But given their life cycle vs. return the investment is minimal really. $300-400 every three years for calipers is less than you spend on good tires. However this is really the extreme cases.

The DP caliper is simply a work of art in it's design and packaging. It comes at a price however. Keep in mind this caliper can be had on ALL SHO kits too and not only the Jr. kit. Web pages will show all of this in the near future.

New to the market are both the BSL6 Narrow and soon the FSL caliper for such aps where piston size is 'medium'. The FSL will replace the BSL in the coming months. The 96 kits will still be based ONLY on the RNDL and the DP offerings as of now. BUT in the near future I can do a rotor width up sizing and MAYBE a slight increase in diameter to all of these. Perhaps a 12x1.1 options with the DP for example.

If all of this makes your head spin you'd better read what I have on the pages now and then call me so I can expand on it. There are too many can and can't dos to make it all work!

<small>[ July 23, 2003, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: Todd TCE ]</small>

 

[SHOck]

Thank, Todd. I get the impression that a lot of people think the Wilwoods have NO seal, when in fact they do have the o-ring. Having the boots is not a bad thing, just not really necessary IMO, unless you really never do anything with your calipers except remove to replace pads/rotors. I clean mine from time to time.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't do a 12x1.1 for the slicers. The wheels I'm working with are 16x7, but are actually closer than the slicers in that critical outer-top edge of the caliper. You'll have to go with the hat setup to achieve the proper offset for the thicker rotor, but you can do it without adding machining cost to the mix, keeping the price low. I'm looking at $650 retail for my piece-meal setup, and that includes polished calipers. Something like this will be a great option for everyone.

 

[Todd TCE]

Forgive me but I don't understand the question. Or what you are saying.

The slicers won't support fixed mouut calipers with either .81 nor 1.1 rotors.

I already offer a 12.2 kit that does fit it but uses the needed wheel spacer.

Wheel fit is based mostly on the design, not the offset or size.

Dust seals are not the same as piston seals. All calipers have piston seals.

There wil never be a brake kit of 12" or so and with fixed calipers that will sell for only $600.

 

[SHOck]

Todd TCE:
Forgive me but I don't understand the question. Or what you are saying.

The slicers won't support fixed mouut calipers with either .81 nor 1.1 rotors.

I already offer a 12.2 kit that does fit it but uses the needed wheel spacer.

Wheel fit is based mostly on the design, not the offset or size.

Dust seals are not the same as piston seals. All calipers have piston seals.

There wil never be a brake kit of 12" or so and with fixed calipers that will sell for only $600.

Are you saying that your kits won't fit with stock slicers? I wasn't referring to your present kits. I know of at least one Wilwood caliper will fit under the slicers. I spec'd it on an aluminum hat setup, so I don't know if there is a solid rotor that will fit. The aluminum hats are thicker that the one-piece rotor hats, so there is a bit of a change in wheel offset from the start.

Now the offset I was referring to in my previous post was rotor offset, not wheel offset. With the aluminum hats there are many available offsets, so the possibilities are greater.

My point about the seals was that most people don't realize that the piston seals do a fine job of keeping out junk, and that few problems occur even though 'dust seals' are not present. At least, when you use stainless pistons, there aren't problems. I've always presumed mfg's use 'dust seals' not because of dust but because the pistons are carbon steel; they would rust and destroy the piston seal in short order.

I didn't figure you'd provide a fixed caliper setup for $600, which is why I started spec'ing my own this past winter. However, I figured with the pricing you get, you might get close, but I've got no idea what your profit margins are on brake kits, so I've really got no clue. For myself, without any overhead, a $600 kit would be nicely profitable, but I wouldn't be trying to make a living off of it, so that's neither here nor there.

Thanks for the responses,
David

 

[Todd TCE]

I'm following the thread here David, but I'm still lost on the specifics of your questions or comments.

The base SHO Stopper kit fits the slicers.

The Jr. kit will too with proper spacers.

No Wilwood caliper will bolt up to the stock rotor directly.

No Wilwood caliper will clear the Slicer wheel without proper changes.

I don't do 'one piece' rotors so if you are considering the Vette rotor you'll be on your own.

Lastly, the profit margins are very slim given the very favorable prices I sell at. Doing a kit on your own may get you the satisfaction of so doing but the hassles don't come close to getting one in a box that is known to fit.

Hope some of this somehow helps.

 

[Red'93MtxIA]

Sorry for this interuption in the post but, YamahaSHO what kind of tint is that on your car. I'm looking for new tint and I think that looks awesome.

Thanks,
Jake

 

[yamahaSHO]

Red'93MtxIA:
Sorry for this interuption in the post but, YamahaSHO what kind of tint is that on your car. I'm looking for new tint and I think that looks awesome.

Thanks,
Jake

I cannot remember exactly, I went with Arizona legal limits. I will be heading back to AZ to get my car on Thursday, I will look through the paper work and I will get back to you. wink

 

[kaoticSHO]

Todd, I have been busy for a while now however I have some new pictures of the BSL setup on Opal. I would be very interested in anything new you have to offer for the others....as always.

If you haven't dealt with Todd before...be ready for a seriously capable brake guru who makes a true "bolt-on" product for our cars.

 

[Todd TCE]

New?

BSL6 Narrow.

The best thing WW has come up with for low clearance fit issues ever. Stiff, six ***-4.0", most of the pad options, and fits any of the current kits as a replacement, AND it clears the slicer. Not so for the normal BSL6