Essentially, that's all you'd need to do, however, given how the injectors react, it may require finer adjustment. Adjustment (lowering within the 12-14v region) of the Injector Breakpoint vs Battery Voltage is probably a must if you haven't already changed it to bring the injector slops within reasonable values.
What Fuel Injectors Are You Running?
- Thread starter 1995SHO9
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Essentially, that's all you'd need to do, however, given how the injectors react, it may require finer adjustment. Adjustment (lowering within the 12-14v region) of the Injector Breakpoint vs Battery Voltage is probably a must if you haven't already changed it to bring the injector slops within reasonable values.
1993MTXSHO
Its a Taurus...
You don't get it... 1995SHO9 is looking for some solid advice and you're not giving him anything to go by. Someone already blew his car up once, I don't think he wants it to happen again.
Seriously, grow up and search for some real answers instead of passing off BS.
:snap: did he just go there? I think he did
MerkXRTurbo
New Member
Diesel and gasoline fuel upgrades are NOTHING the same! In a diesel you give it more fuel you will give it more power... the only downside is that if you do not have enough air in the mixture your EGTs will climb and melt your internals.
On a gasser, an overly rich condition will LOSE power, every time. It's got to have a properly balanced air/fuel ratio. Unlike a diesel (which does not require much air to burn) when you increase air coming into the engine the fuel automatically increases to keep that air fuel ratio within an acceptable range. Diesels do not do this because they don't care how much air is in there (that's why a pyrometer is a MUST on diesels, because YOU have to monitor it).
Also unlike a diesel, which has oily fuel, gasoline actually washes away oil! If you're running a rich mixture in a gasser you will wash the oil off of the cylinder walls and wear your rings out prematurely. I HIGHLY suggest that you do some research on the inner workings of gasoline engines. You should never upgrade your injectors unless you are pushing so much air into the cylinders that they are unable to provide the engine with enough fuel to maintain that air/fuel ratio that I just covered.
Taking automotive advice from this guy is like having Rosie O'donell help you with your weight loss plan.
On a gasser, an overly rich condition will LOSE power, every time. It's got to have a properly balanced air/fuel ratio. Unlike a diesel (which does not require much air to burn) when you increase air coming into the engine the fuel automatically increases to keep that air fuel ratio within an acceptable range. Diesels do not do this because they don't care how much air is in there (that's why a pyrometer is a MUST on diesels, because YOU have to monitor it).
Also unlike a diesel, which has oily fuel, gasoline actually washes away oil! If you're running a rich mixture in a gasser you will wash the oil off of the cylinder walls and wear your rings out prematurely. I HIGHLY suggest that you do some research on the inner workings of gasoline engines. You should never upgrade your injectors unless you are pushing so much air into the cylinders that they are unable to provide the engine with enough fuel to maintain that air/fuel ratio that I just covered.
Taking automotive advice from this guy is like having Rosie O'donell help you with your weight loss plan.
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1995SHO9
FLEES ARE COMIN
NCTaurusSHO, which injectors do you want me to get? The accels 48's look promising but no pintal cap, I believe somdude and toolman are running accels.....? Anyways, hit me up because I want to get the injectors swapped out asap, thanks......
YAMAHASHO and NCTAURUS quit bickering guys, come on.. You both have your own opinions and I respect both of yours, but there is no reason to get upset if someone does somthing different then you would. You both have bad sweet cars but different opinions.
YAMAHASHO and NCTAURUS quit bickering guys, come on.. You both have your own opinions and I respect both of yours, but there is no reason to get upset if someone does somthing different then you would. You both have bad sweet cars but different opinions.
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MerkXRTurbo
New Member
He's not just "doing something different". He's giving advice that will eventually RUIN YOUR ENGINE!!! Automotive engineering is a proven science! Stuff like this is NOT up for debate! Do a bit of research, and keep this guy far away from your car if the statements he makes here are actually serious.
SASHO91
Zoom Zoom
Ransom, could you relay that conversion to me? XX.Xlb injector x XX.Xpsi = XX.Xlb injector or whatever it is....
With the new style injectors, IIRC, you have to have them machined to fit the head/seal and they have a much better spray pattern than stock. They do not require a pintle cap.
It's not bickering. I am stating facts, not opinions. I've spoken to you on AIM and I've already given you my take. You have also come here for advice and anyone that understands this stuff isn't going to let you leave thinking bad advice is good advice.
Actually, looking back at the people who have posted, most, if not all the other boosted guys in this thread are making more power. And the car hasn't been boosted for a "LONG time". Ransom and Lupo's cars have been boosted for a long time. IIRC, the Apexi tuning SHO's have gone through some pistons too. I highly doubt they've put those cars through the same tortures as I have with the boosted SHO's I've had a hand in.
Just because it can be done that way, doesn't mean it is the right way. With all the FREE knowledge available now, there's no reason to half-ass anything. We've already done the research to do it right the first time AND still be cheap.
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The accels that Josh offers come in two varieties, one for modified fuel rails, and ones that are direct drop ins to tour stock rails.
I am using the old SHO SHOP 47.7 lb injectors. The accel's are better, from what I have heard.
1993MTXSHO
Its a Taurus...
yup, I have the ones that are machined, they were the same price as the non machined ones so I figured what the ****. All it is, is the same injector he put on a lathe or something to make fit. Also FWIW all josh uses are mustang injectors. I looked around at the time when I got mine and his prices were pretty good for them, so I got a set dunno if his prices have gone up since then though.
1995SHO9
FLEES ARE COMIN
Ah, I believe he said the accels he sells just just drop in? Correct?
I have boosch universals in there now, so all I would have to do is get the accels for the modified fuel rails and just drop them straight in?
I have boosch universals in there now, so all I would have to do is get the accels for the modified fuel rails and just drop them straight in?
They're not just "Mustang" injectors as they are far more universal than that. They are a direct fit for my dad's RamJet 350 as well.
In stock form, they will not fit. Josh has the injector machined to fit into the head. If you already have modified rails, then that is all that needs to be done. If you don't have modified rails, then you will have to have the upper portion of the injector machined as well (Josh does this too).
In short, YES, you can buy them to be direct replacements, but you'll have to contact Josh.
sbsho
New Member
I have actual mustang ones and the top of the injector has to be modifed with a lathe or different o-rings or have the rails bored out a little bit. also did someone say that the newer style injectors ev6 have a better spray than the older ev1 injectors? and i can definitly agree that too much gas and not enough air decreases your power, experienced it once before.
Josh lists them on the site, they have their own part number.
ACCEL 48 lb/hr injectors, set of 6, modified to fit the V6, for STOCK rails, does NOT require rail mods, direct replacement for stock injectors, includes rail o-rings, head seals not included (LIMITED SETS IN STOCK)
sho_sc
New Member
I'm going to answer whole bunch of questions, I hope.
The formula to figure out the change in injector size because of fuel pressure change is : The square root of the new pressure over the old pressure times the old injector size. e.g. My Siemens 63 lb injectors are acting like 66.5 lb because I've raise my base fuel pressure to 48.5 psi. The SQRT of 48.5 is 6.9642. The SQRT of 43.5 (which is the standard fuel pressure) is 6.5954. Divided out that is 1.0559 then multiple 63 to get 66.5.
I'm running ~20 psi of boost at 7500 RPM.
There is a maximium of fuel pressure you can run because the fuel pump won't take the pressure. Using my SHO as an example, 20 psi of boost added to the 48.5 base fuel pressure is 68.5 psi the fuel pump sees. A "normal" 255 lph Walbro pump will only pump ~195 lph at those pressures. FYI, my fuel system is a custom system that I built. I use an external pump.
The Siemens injectors are high impedence (12 ohms) and work with our ECC.
I'm running that size injectors to keep my injector duty cycle at or under 80%. Bad things happen when you reach 90% .....especially when you are on the throttle for a mile or better. My T-Trim has a lot of parasitic drag, I'm loosing about 50 HP to what a turbo would see.
The formula to figure out the change in injector size because of fuel pressure change is : The square root of the new pressure over the old pressure times the old injector size. e.g. My Siemens 63 lb injectors are acting like 66.5 lb because I've raise my base fuel pressure to 48.5 psi. The SQRT of 48.5 is 6.9642. The SQRT of 43.5 (which is the standard fuel pressure) is 6.5954. Divided out that is 1.0559 then multiple 63 to get 66.5.
I'm running ~20 psi of boost at 7500 RPM.
There is a maximium of fuel pressure you can run because the fuel pump won't take the pressure. Using my SHO as an example, 20 psi of boost added to the 48.5 base fuel pressure is 68.5 psi the fuel pump sees. A "normal" 255 lph Walbro pump will only pump ~195 lph at those pressures. FYI, my fuel system is a custom system that I built. I use an external pump.
The Siemens injectors are high impedence (12 ohms) and work with our ECC.
I'm running that size injectors to keep my injector duty cycle at or under 80%. Bad things happen when you reach 90% .....especially when you are on the throttle for a mile or better. My T-Trim has a lot of parasitic drag, I'm loosing about 50 HP to what a turbo would see.
Awe Ransom, you mean you don't like this???
I bought the high pressure version of the 255lph pump and plan to bump up the fuel pressure enough for the 48's I have to act like 52 - 54lbs/hr. I'll do that shortly as I have to install the 90mm LMAF.
BTW, where did you get those injectors?
I bought the high pressure version of the 255lph pump and plan to bump up the fuel pressure enough for the 48's I have to act like 52 - 54lbs/hr. I'll do that shortly as I have to install the 90mm LMAF.
BTW, where did you get those injectors?
Lupo
New Member
I thought that the stock fuel pressure is 39psi?
I am talking relative fuel pressure of course. This would equate to about 31-32 at idle, and 44 with 5pounds boost, and simply 39 at one atmoshpere......etc.
So when you are talking 48.5psi, is that relative fuel pressure?
1995SHO9
FLEES ARE COMIN
That is very interesting about raising the fuel presure. Thanks for everyones replies.
sho_sc
New Member
Manufactures use 43 psi as their base pressure. That is the psi they test their injectors and get the flow numbers. So actually, a 48 lb injector acts as 45.5 injector in a SHO with stock fuel pressure.
holy crap 95%? im no tuner but im trying to learn and from what ive understood that means your injectors are pretty much maxed out. i dont know about you but id like alittle room for safety.
if you got a really cold night with some good air you might lean out right? cuz the maf would read more air and push more fuel?
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