Weight Reduction Questions.

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

jedhead

New Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Messages
2,545
Reaction score
188
Location
westminster,ca
cmichaelo said:
It makes sense you have better handling and braking with a 17x8 wheel than with a 16x6 wheel.

I believe your OZ Superlegera are 16lbs each and that it is a cast type rim, no?

However, 16lbs is by no means the norm for a 17x8 cast rim. 17x8 cast rims WILL weigh more than 18lbs in 99% of the cases.

To get 17x8 rims that weigh less than 18lbs, you'd typically have to pocket out a lot of money for a forged type rim.

Btw, what is the load rating of your rims?

Michael
The OZ wheels are cast from an aluminum/titianium alloy. Load rating is 680Kg, ~1500lbs. The wheels are not cheap. I paid just under $1200 delivered. The only 17" wheels that I found lighter are Centerlines that only come 7" wide and have a 1100lbs load rating which I think is a little too low.

Bob
 

sho_sc

New Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
754
Reaction score
69
Location
Georgetown, KY
drivinhard said:
The OZ's are very light, but the gain you have is from the wheel width (and properly sized tire, 235 on 8"). Assuming the same tire compound, you'd pick up the same performance with a 16x8.

Nothing wrong with a 17" (16x8" are near impossible to find in the SHO sizes) as I run 17x8" to, but the point is where the weight is can be more important than how much.

there are so many variables, it's hard to say "X" and get "Y".

You could have a 20 lb flywheel with 16 lbs of it's mass concentrated at the center, and a thin/drilled outside that's 4 lbs and it's going to take less power/time to spin it to X speed, than a 20 lb flywheel with most of it's weight at the edges, applying the same power as before. In the same vein, lighter tires are more important than lighter wheels, since they are farther away from the axle centerline.

With that being said, the "spool up" effect is going to show itself less and less as you increase gearing, ie, since 1st gear is short and the gearing allows the engine to rev quickly, the inertia effects of the lighter flywheel (or tires) are going to show up more. Less pronounced in 2nd, probably some (very little) in 3rd, I'd venture by 4th gear, with the taller gearing and 100+ mph aero pushing against the car, the rpm climb rate is slowed so much mechanically, that it's not going to really be noticed. It probably shows up on the dyno (in 4th) as the drum spins up faster than a car does pulling from 2000 rpm in 4th to 140+ mph.

Also for drag racing, the alum unit (flywheel) isn't going to have the thermal capacity that a billet steel or cast iron unit would have. I see an alum unit if you are into road racing/auto-x where you want to cut as much (static) weight off the car period, and driveline rotational weight as well.

Since the SHO FW is only a 10" unit or so (material max of 5" from the crank center line) it won't have as much of an effect in a 1st gear pull as a tires (26" tall, max of 13" from the axle centerline) that are lighter. Tires will have most affect, followed by wheels, followed by 2 pc brake rotors since the light part (alum hat) sits right at the axle Also because a dyno drum spins up faster than a car will pull through the same gear on a road w/ aero drag, those things probably show up more on dyno numbers, than real world.

I have a TON of drag passes on my old 89, testing different parts. Going to a 8 lb flywheel over the stock showed no improvement in ET or mph. It was nice for road racing though, where it was easier to blip the throttle and if nothing else it's 13 less lbs (static) on the nose. Probably a bit easier on the synchro's to.

The term for this is Moment of Inertia (MOI). Oddly, in the motorcycle racing world it's talked about, but in the car world it's not ... ?
 

drivinhard

New Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Messages
1,689
Reaction score
108
Location
Gainesville, GA
sho_sc said:
The term for this is Moment of Inertia (MOI). Oddly, in the motorcycle racing world it's talked about, but in the car world it's not ... ?

We figure at 3500 lb, why bother :bonk:
 

drivinhard

New Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Messages
1,689
Reaction score
108
Location
Gainesville, GA
cmichaelo said:
It makes sense you have better handling and braking with a 17x8 wheel than with a 16x6 wheel.
However, 16lbs is by no means the norm for a 17x8 cast rim. 17x8 cast rims WILL weigh more than 18lbs in 99% of the cases.
To get 17x8 rims that weigh less than 18lbs, you'd typically have to pocket out a lot of money for a forged type rim.

Interestingly GM used Alcoa sourced forged wheels for the 01 Z06, then switched to spun cast Speedline wheels for 02-04. (the latter being slightly lighter)

19.6 lbs, front; 21.4 lbs, rear - 01 Z06 forged
19.2 lbs, front; 21 lbs, rear --- 02-04 Z06 cast/spun

Front are 17x9.5, rear are 18x10.5

The spokes are fatter on the spun cast to, I presume this was to equal the same load rating as the thinner spoke forged.

Both are very light for an OEM wheel, given the width and size dia.

The TD PR1.2 17x8" for the SHO are right at 20 lb on my shipping scale, which is reasonably decent for a 17x8". The 17x7" PR2 I have are 17.25 lb, which is very good. Too bad they don't make that wheel in the 8" widths.
 
Last edited:

shomesomesho

G-force addict
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
1,206
Reaction score
43
Location
more rubber, more HP.....
My '91 Plus is right at 3,000 lbs. I just weighed it yesterday. This was with the gas tank nearly empty.

This car is a daily driver and all I did was this:

- Front seats replaced with pair of Corbeau FX1 Pro seats (16 lb/ea).
- Removed rear seats (including seat back)
- Removed rear tray
- Removed center console
- Removed carpet (tar liner still in place)
- Removed trunk lining, spare tire
- Ground control coilovers (saves 40lbs. over standard springs)
- Team Dynamics PR-1 17x7 rims with Bridgestone RE-01R's (41 lbs. tire+rim)
- Hawker Odyssey PC680 lightweight battery (15 lbs) in place of stock battery
- Light(er) weight Gen2 starter
- Fidanza 9 lb. flywheel
- Deleted A/C

All the door panels are still in place, so is the heater, headliner, entire dash, EATC, I even have the stereo and 4 speakers in it. The car has a sunroof, ABS, and airbag. It has a 3.2L and a Quaife, with 13" Cobra front brakes as well as full length SFC's and front/rear STB's. Just goes to show you, you don't have to go too crazy to get some decent weight reduction (at least with a Gen1).

I'll bet this car does high 13's. I will take it to the strip when the weather gets dry out here. In fact I'm sure it does 13's, I beat a stock '05 SRT-4 Neon in it with a decent driver. :)

My autocross Mocha SHO in my sig is much more extensively gutted and has no sunroof, and I'll bet is in the 2800 lbs. range or less. That sucker has a 3.2 as well and it really HAULS ASS!
 
Last edited:

SASHO91

Zoom Zoom
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
6,990
Reaction score
141
Location
San Antonio,TX
Im gonna bring it back for one more question...

Wheels-$300+, 16lbs each. a 20lb drop in static weight....
Seats-$???, atleast a 50lb drop in static weight.

The wheels will cost more, unless I go with race seats. However, their weight savings would not only show up in static weight but rotational as well. Seats will save more static weight...

I guess what im asking/saying... Im not too sure which way i want to go first. Wheels or Seats? I do plan on eventually getting both, but my "concern" is which will make the bigger impact; which that one will be my choice.
 

BlackonBlack89

SHO Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
1,508
Reaction score
364
Location
burlington county,NJ
Well I think you should go with wheels. They may be more money but will improve multiple characteristics of your car. Wheels are not just going to save weight they are also gonna improve handling and asthetics(if they look good).
 

SASHO91

Zoom Zoom
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
6,990
Reaction score
141
Location
San Antonio,TX
They are 16x7's... i kinda knew they would help handling.. thanks though. (hope that didnt sound too rude)

They are Enkei OR52's... the same ones from a thread awhile back. :thumb:
 

warmonger

New Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
959
Reaction score
69
Location
earth
slicers are only 18lbs(so all but one person i've seen says) so thats 8 static and 40 rotational lbs(barring any change in wieght of the tires)..it prob. works out even depending on what seats you get..but like blackonblack says,the wheels would win out because they will have a greater overall effect
 

SHOZ123

SHO Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2000
Messages
12,152
Reaction score
673
Location
Illinois
Impact to the wallet or weight?????

If you are going to do both do the least favorable first. This will provide incentive to finish the job.
 
Last edited:

cmichaelo

Gee, Ollie!
Joined
Nov 6, 2001
Messages
279
Reaction score
7
Location
New York
Go with the seats

The slicers are 16x6 I believe and weigh 18lbs. Looking at the wheel I would think a significant fraction of the weight is actually in the spokes.

Now compare this to a 16x7 or a 17x7.5 wheels that weighs a few pounds less and assume these wheels have tiny spokes (as compared to the slicers). In all likelyhood, in this type of wheel most of the weight is concentrated in the rim.

What matters wrt to effective rotational weight is at which distance from the center of the wheel the effective mass of the wheel is concentrated. The further away from the center the mass is concentrated the higher the rotational mass.

The net result of this could be that you have a bigger wheel that weighs less statically (which helps with handling) but which has almost the same, if not higher, rotational weight than the slicers.

I'm saying maybe! Just something to think about.

So the main reason for upgrading to lightweight wheels, IMO, is handling and looks. But it is expensive and it's unlikely to affect accelleration times...maybe slightly in combination with a very lightweight tire.

The best spent money is on the seats. You easily gain 50lbs right there for less than half the money you'd spend on wheels/tires. IMO, this also improves handling as the seats keep you in place unlike the slip'n-slide stockers thus giving you more control of the car. Lastly, you sit lower which further improves handling.


Michael
 

SASHO91

Zoom Zoom
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
6,990
Reaction score
141
Location
San Antonio,TX
Hmm.. well i was using the 21lb figure for the slicers.... but if they are infact 18lbs then i'll stick with the seats for now.

Michael, good point about where the mass of the wheel is at... I overlooked that.
The wheels im looking at--- http://edgeracing.com/wheel/3396/
 

drivinhard

New Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2001
Messages
1,689
Reaction score
108
Location
Gainesville, GA
The slicers are indeed 18 lb (18.05 lb on my shipper scale).

The stock seats are boat anchors. 110lbs for both (for power). A $220 16 lb track seat (Forza, etc) is a great investment. Amazing how much better you can drive a car at the track when you aren't sliding around in it.

A 17x8 TD PR1.2 wheel gives you all the brake clearance you'll ever need, 8" width, and a set of PS2 235/45/17's on it likely weigh in the same ballpark as a typical 225/55/16 on a slicer.
 

SASHO91

Zoom Zoom
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
6,990
Reaction score
141
Location
San Antonio,TX
Well, then, seats are #1 on the list then.
Thanks guys.

Im assuming the 18lb figure is for both italian and canadian slicers? I would think so... but ya never know...
 
Joined
Oct 11, 2004
Messages
4,970
Reaction score
1,456
Location
Cocoa,Florida
SASHO91 said:
Well, then, seats are #1 on the list then.
Thanks guys.

Im assuming the 18lb figure is for both italian and canadian slicers? I would think so... but ya never know...
what seats are you looking at Josh?
 

SASHO91

Zoom Zoom
Joined
Feb 3, 2004
Messages
6,990
Reaction score
141
Location
San Antonio,TX
not too sure yet...

i have been looking at some Kirkey Econo Drag seats... they are 12lbs each. So the ride will be alittle harsh.... :naughty:

But if i can find some nice manual seats that are alot lighter than ours(shouldnt be too hard), then i might run those, depending on the seat design.

These- http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=KIR-41700&N=700+115&autoview=sku
and then the seat covers.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=KIR-41711&N=700+115&autoview=sku
 

Shoaz

Studly dood
Joined
Mar 25, 2003
Messages
4,637
Reaction score
593
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
SASHO91 said:
not too sure yet...

i have been looking at some Kirkey Econo Drag seats... they are 12lbs each. So the ride will be alittle harsh.... :naughty:

But if i can find some nice manual seats that are alot lighter than ours(shouldnt be too hard), then i might run those, depending on the seat design.

FWIW, the Pumpkin had some stock-ish manual seats in it when I got it, and they're quite light. Not 12lbs light, but not anything as massive as the stock power seats, which are freakin' boat anchors. I -think- they were out of a Sable or something...
 

SeanMc

NoMoSHO
Joined
Feb 20, 2005
Messages
4,120
Reaction score
731
Location
Location: Location:
Reviving an old thread. I compared my slicers to my new wheels, quite a difference. The slicer was heavy, and the new wheel when I first picked it up, I almost ended up throwing it across the garage. The slicer with the 225/50 Bridgestone Fusion tire was around 45lbs with about 50% tread left, the new wheel and tire comes in around 40. The difference is definitely noticable. My top end seems better too.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
107,080
Messages
1,181,221
Members
16,144
Latest member
14blkbeauty

Members online

Back
Top