Was this SHO just cold or does the PP make a big difference?

gamah

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I'm in the market for a 2016+ SHO. I test drove one yesterday that was a 2016 (non PP) lemon buyback (it was just the door handle lock not working at the end of a lease, allegedly anyway...) and coming from my 14 Focus ST it seemed kind of lackluster when I got on the gas. Tonight I took home a 2018 (with the PP) which I understand to have the same engine and tune and it was much more on par with the Focus ST.

The only difference between the two I could think of (besides having the PP) is the 2018 was running for a while as I was talking numbers with the dealer where the 2016 was at the detail shop and we had to take another car over to get it. It had maybe 4-5 minutes of cruising through the city before I took it to the highway to gun it, leaving me really underwhelmed. It was about -15 degrees outside that morning and had only warmed up to about 12 above 0 by the time I was there to drive it.

Is this normal? It would make sense to me, and I wouldn't normally try to romp on a car that I know is still cold, but the 2.0L in my Focus ST gets up to temp pretty quickly. While I'm posting here in a forum, I have a couple other questions... They both have Sync3, do they both have the same version of it? I'm excited to finally get to use android auto I'm just worried there might be something the 2018 I'm driving tonight does that the 2016 won't.

Also, how do the cloth seats hold up? The only downside to the 2016 is that is has the cloth seats, however it does have the massagers which is neat!
 

stripSHO

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I've had two 2016's. Leased a non-PP, then turned it in and bought a PP. It seemed like an important performance upgrade at the time, but it is often said on this forum that the non-PP is just as fast once tuned. In stock form I think there's like .2 or .3 seconds 1/4 mile difference, nothing dramatic.

I'm fairly sure you have only two options when it comes to upholstery- leather, or leather w/alcantara inserts. You sure the '16 was an SHO? If it was remarkably slower than your other test drive then it probably has something wrong.
 

Zpak

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The trans... sorry the ‘transmission’ may still have been in warm up mode if it was that cold out and not up to operating temp. Mine does often seem sluggish when it’s no degrees outside and only take a short trip.
 

bpd1151

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The trans... sorry the ‘transmission’ may still have been in warm up mode if it was that cold out and not up to operating temp. Mine does often seem sluggish when it’s no degrees outside and only take a short trip.
This was/is likely the case with the experience stated.

It takes roughly 15 min +/- of casual driving in order to get the trans fluid up to operating temp(s) before one can expect "spirited" performance thereafter.

Longer duration in the temps the OP stated.
 

GHNorth

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Another factor to weigh in is whether the non-PP has adaptive cruise control. My '13 has ACC as well as the multi-contour (massaging) seats, which were not even an option in the later years. I would definitely select a non-PP with ACC over a PP without. But, that's just me. Your priorities may be different. Other than the gear ratio, you can retrofit the PP features into a non-PP, but you cannot retrofit a PP with ACC.
 

gamah

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This was/is likely the case with the experience stated.

It takes roughly 15 min +/- of casual driving in order to get the trans fluid up to operating temp(s) before one can expect "spirited" performance thereafter.

Longer duration in the temps the OP stated.
This gives me a lot more confidence in the car.... How afraid of the lemon branded title should I be?

Another factor to weigh in is whether the non-PP has adaptive cruise control. My '13 has ACC as well as the multi-contour (massaging) seats, which were not even an option in the later years. I would definitely select a non-PP with ACC over a PP without. But, that's just me. Your priorities may be different. Other than the gear ratio, you can retrofit the PP features into a non-PP, but you cannot retrofit a PP with ACC.

This one had the massaging seats, ACC, and apparently LKAS. It's also black vs the 2018 being that weird grey that I hate.
 

bpd1151

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@gamah......

Lemon branded or salvage titles shouldn't be something necessarily to scare one away from a potential purchase. However, that said.....

Having a title branded under that does significantly decrease the value of the car.

The bigger issue is (& this depends on what state you will be re-titling within) is having the ability TO re-title it. Most States will require a vehicle with such a title to undergo a safety inspection to ensure that the car is actually roadworthy before they'll release a new title.

Safety inspections aren't necessarily on the cheap side either I'll add.
 

gamah

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@gamah......

Lemon branded or salvage titles shouldn't be something necessarily to scare one away from a potential purchase. However, that said.....

Having a title branded under that does significantly decrease the value of the car.

The bigger issue is (& this depends on what state you will be re-titling within) is having the ability TO re-title it. Most States will require a vehicle with such a title to undergo a safety inspection to ensure that the car is actually roadworthy before they'll release a new title.

Safety inspections aren't necessarily on the cheap side either I'll add.
The car was bought back, repaired and (recertified? redelivered?) by ford. The only issue was that the handle touch to lock/unlock was not working. It works now, the document they showed me from Ford says a BCM module was replaced. Car comes with 12 month 12k mile bumper to bumper warranty by ford and will be retitled, but must carry the lemon branding.

So my two options are:
Black 2016 with leather trimmed cloth seats, non PP, ACC, LKAS, Massaging seats, lemon title... ~30k miles, $11k financed
Grey 2018 PP, no ACC, 45k miles, $20k financed.

The 2016 already being 6 years old will retain what ever value it can for having the brand.....
The 2018 I fear will lose 6-10k of value over the 1.5-2 years it'll take me to pay off the loan.
 

Majestic

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I'd probably go with the 16. But I am unaware of any SHO having cloth seats.
 

RonPorter

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It appears that you're in Iowa? And they brand the title with some kind of Lemon designation? I've never heard of that before.

Long story, but my current car was bought back by FCA in California under their Lemon Law (20k miles after FCA replaced the engine! Lawyers were involved). I bought it from a dealer here in MI, who got it from FCA. I have a regular green MI title, and I also got the 12 month, unlimited mileage full warranty from FCA. Being a 2018, it was also still eligible for the factory extended warranty, which I bought (I got the car in April 2021).
 

stripSHO

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The reasoning given for the lemon title seems incredibly suspect. According to the Iowa AG:
"To qualify as a “lemon” under the Lemon Law, a vehicle must:

  • Be under two years old, and
  • Have less than 24,000 miles on it, and
  • Weigh less than 15,000 lbs. (Weight is listed on vehicle title and registration. Average weight for new vehicles produced in model year 2015 = 4,305 lbs. -- www.epa.gov).
NOTE: Motorcycles, mopeds, motor tricycles, and RVs do not qualify for the Lemon Law.

Additionally, to qualify as a “lemon” under the Lemon Law, your vehicle must have a problem or defect that renders the vehicle unfit, unreliable, or unsafe for ordinary use or significantly diminishes the value of the vehicle that occurred during the Lemon Law rights period..."

As Ron pointed out, the car could've came from anywhere so the above statements may not apply. But still I feel like a bad door handle resulting in a successful lemon case would've required an insufferable owner, a highly incompetent service department, and a really good lawyer. That's a great price but it might behoove you to investigate the situation outside of whatever the seller is telling you, just to make sure you know what you're really getting into.
 

gamah

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The reasoning given for the lemon title seems incredibly suspect. According to the Iowa AG:
"To qualify as a “lemon” under the Lemon Law, a vehicle must:

  • Be under two years old, and
  • Have less than 24,000 miles on it, and
  • Weigh less than 15,000 lbs. (Weight is listed on vehicle title and registration. Average weight for new vehicles produced in model year 2015 = 4,305 lbs. -- www.epa.gov).
NOTE: Motorcycles, mopeds, motor tricycles, and RVs do not qualify for the Lemon Law.

Additionally, to qualify as a “lemon” under the Lemon Law, your vehicle must have a problem or defect that renders the vehicle unfit, unreliable, or unsafe for ordinary use or significantly diminishes the value of the vehicle that occurred during the Lemon Law rights period..."

As Ron pointed out, the car could've came from anywhere so the above statements may not apply. But still I feel like a bad door handle resulting in a successful lemon case would've required an insufferable owner, a highly incompetent service department, and a really good lawyer. That's a great price but it might behoove you to investigate the situation outside of whatever the seller is telling you, just to make sure you know what you're really getting into.
It was an NJ lemon car... was serviced X times in Y months or whatever... no litigation involved Ford bought back as a curtosey.

It doesn't matter though, went to drive the thing overnight and when I finally got to test the brakes coming off the highway the thing shuddered like mad. The down button on the steering wheel also always pushed the right button at the same time. For some reason the driver side airbag warning sticker on the visor was ripped off, and once it was finally warmed up I was able to see that it definitely pulled better than when it was cold, but the PP was much more fun.

Just got home with my new-to-me 2018 SHO PP in Silver. Gonna keep my eyes out for a black one though.

Sooooo where in NE Iowa do I take this thing for a tune? :)
 

Ta2dResqr

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It was an NJ lemon car... was serviced X times in Y months or whatever... no litigation involved Ford bought back as a curtosey.

It doesn't matter though, went to drive the thing overnight and when I finally got to test the brakes coming off the highway the thing shuddered like mad. The down button on the steering wheel also always pushed the right button at the same time. For some reason the driver side airbag warning sticker on the visor was ripped off, and once it was finally warmed up I was able to see that it definitely pulled better than when it was cold, but the PP was much more fun.

Just got home with my new-to-me 2018 SHO PP in Silver. Gonna keep my eyes out for a black one though.

Sooooo where in NE Iowa do I take this thing for a tune? :)
Most tuning is via internet. You can go local but not very likely you are close to one of the "big" tuners. I would recommend looking around on the forum and checking out the reviews of the favorites on here. Lots of people go with AJP, Gearhead, or ***** (alpha not preference). It will require you to do a little wrenching so hopefully you are comfortable with that.
 
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Zpak

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Congrats on the new to you ride!

For reasons above my pay grade for reliability and safety these cars require SHO specific experience when tuning. So, my best advice is research this forum and stick with one of the previously mentioned tuners.
 

larryo340

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Another factor to weigh in is whether the non-PP has adaptive cruise control. My '13 has ACC as well as the multi-contour (massaging) seats, which were not even an option in the later years. I would definitely select a non-PP with ACC over a PP without. But, that's just me. Your priorities may be different. Other than the gear ratio, you can retrofit the PP features into a non-PP, but you cannot retrofit a PP with ACC.
My 15 has adaptive cruise control, and the multi contour massage seats love them both couldn’t imagine driving this car without them
 

gamah

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My 15 has adaptive cruise control, and the multi contour massage seats love them both couldn’t imagine driving this car without them
Yeah the ACC, and LKAS were super nice on the 16 I test drove, but the cloth seats were SO ugly... even with the massagers. Also it was a lemon, and had other weird issues going on. Is it possible to retrofit ACC and LKAS to a PP model?
 

Ta2dResqr

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Is it possible to retrofit ACC and LKAS to a PP model?
Possible? Yes. With any sort of budget in mind... No. There are tons of sensors, cameras, switches, wiring, programming, etc that needs done. I believe there is a guy overseas that has a write up on it.
 

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