upgrading to carburetion

[sho'noff]

would have to find some ultra complex manometer for 6 cylinders.

 

[hawkeye18]

If carbs were better, manufacturers would still be using them.

They aren't.

/endofstory

 

[sho'noff]

If someone had to swap the motor to another car this would be way easier. I wonder what kind of fuel pressure would be necessary.

 

[yamahaSHO]

Plug-N-Play would be much easier, which is what the stock setup would be...

 

[Shovert]

I'm willing to bet the S2000 had ITB's and not carbs.

Ok I got 2 sites crossed in my mind but it was a toyota with 4 motorcycle carbs. I agree best with EFI. Maurice
http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?40,2290310

 

[intimdatr]

Inline motor lend themselves a lot more to doing ITB a lot easier.

 

[SHOVNST]

This thread's title needs to be "downgrading to carburation"

 

[jelloslug]

The entire thought sounds like a bad idea.

 

[3d914]

just an idea at this point, alot of motorcycles make much more horsepower per cc than any car.
For example a kawasaki gpz750 with 2 valves per cylinder, dual overhead cams 4 cylinder makes roughly 86 horsepower at 9500 rpm.
739 ccs and 86 horsepower is more than 1 horsepower per 10 cc's 1995 taurus sho 3200 cc's 220 horsepower is less than 1 horsepower per 10 cc's.
I am sure alot of it has to do with winding a little 4 cylinder engine to 9500 rpm, but the individual carburetors and very long equal length pipes help.
my kz750 has a clean air system that lets air into the exhaust with reed valves. I took the main hose off for the system with it idling and the velocity of the exhaust through the pipes created a lot of vacuum.
If there was a way to put very long equal length headers on the sho I am sure there would be a great power output increase.

sho'noff, although I agree that going with carbs would be a big step backwards, I get the feeling your original question revolved around your comment above - improving horsepower per CC.

Obviously this is accomplished best during the design stage, as I would expect bore vs. stroke would have a big impact. But when I recall the work that Porsche did to significantly increase torque (the basis of HP) in their high-performance NA motors, much of it revolved around the following:

• Increased compression
• Intake/Exhaust valve size
• Intake/exhaust cams
• Increasing intake/exhaust port size
• Increasing intake/exhaust flow, decreasing flow turbulence

Not sure how much of this could be directly applied to the SHO motor. And if applied I'm sure you'd have to go with an aftermarket FI setup to tune the AFM appropriately.

In the 914 world there are a couple of Type-4 engine builders that have taken the stock 2.0L, applied the above (with < 50% added displacement) and have doubled the HP/CC. Took some serious $$$ (new heads for bigger valves) to get there though.

 

[SHOmethewayhome]

Balancing 6 bike carbs wouldn't be that hard, and you can make your own manometer pretty easily to balance them. it'd be like doing it for a triple (XS750 for example), synch each bank, then sink the left and right bank. but it'd take a long time/be frustrating.

A lot of people have used Mikuni BS34s or Flatslide carbs off of the older big block bikes for older straght 4/straight 6 builds.

seen guys in the datsun crowd do it with a SR20/KA24/CA18, a cut intake, rubber boots from the runners to the carb, and velocity stacks or a surge tank and modifying the linkage to run off a single cable/return spring. even they admit it's purely for an asthetic and they don't make much if any power more than a stock set up, and usually they use ITBs from a hyabusa or ZX14 instead of carbs.

I admit, it's pretty sexy seeing an old 4 or 6cyl engine with a bank of single barrels on one side or the sound of six separate intakes sucking in air, or a big V8 with 4 webers or oldschool hilborn injection stacked on top. it looks cool, but mechanical fuel injection or multiple banks of carbs are labor intensive as all get out.

the only advantage I could see to it would purely be the "oooh, aaahh" factor when popping the hood. for the cost/effort of it, I'd rather track down a blower and the kit to bolt it up and polish or powdercoat the stock SHO intake.

 

[Off Road SHO]

I'd rather track down a blower and the kit to bolt it up and polish or powdercoat the stock SHO intake.

True story: I was sitting in The Other Woman on the sidelines of the sand drags that happen every Friday and Saturday night in the Imperial Sand Dunes of Southern California. Parked in between a turbo'd LSXX buggy and a turbo'd Subie buggy, in a long line ( two cars deep during Holiday weekends) of mostly LS powered machines.

Glance up at my rear view mirror to see a crowd has formed around the Other Woman's engine, again. Most overheard comment: "Wow, that is one wild looking engine!" Second most overheard comment: "Why does it say Ford here and Yamaha there on the timing cover?"

No matter where she goes, she always gets more attention than the big boys.

Tom

 

[intimdatr]

In the 914 world there are a couple of Type-4 engine builders that have taken the stock 2.0L, applied the above (with < 50% added displacement) and have doubled the HP/CC. Took some serious $$$ (new heads for bigger valves) to get there though.

I know someone who's done this to his full race car 914. And my god does that car. Hes still t he standard size displacement due to class restrictions, but ~200+ hp in car that weighs WELL under 1 ton is insane.

 

[yamahaSHO]

True story: I was sitting in The Other Woman on the sidelines of the sand drags that happen every Friday and Saturday night in the Imperial Sand Dunes of Southern California. Parked in between a turbo'd LSXX buggy and a turbo'd Subie buggy, in a long line ( two cars deep during Holiday weekends) of mostly LS powered machines.

Glance up at my rear view mirror to see a crowd has formed around the Other Woman's engine, again. Most overheard comment: "Wow, that is one wild looking engine!" Second most overheard comment: "Why does it say Ford here and Yamaha there on the timing cover?"

No matter where she goes, she always gets more attention than the big boys.

Tom

I've done that a few times or so... Last time I had it out, I parked next to a GT-R and I think the owner of that car got irritated that there was a large crowd around my car and nothing by his. Then a picture was taken and posted on 1320Video.

It used to be the same when Scott would take out the Ford GT. I would always have more attention around the SHO than he would with the Supercar.

 

[hawkeye18]

And my god does that car.

Man oh man, does it.





:theyareontome:

 

[3d914]

I know someone who's done this to his full race car 914. And my god does that car (scream). Hes still (used) the standard size displacement due to class restrictions, but ~200+ hp in car that weighs WELL under 1 ton is insane.

sho'noff - sorry to highjack your thread. intimdatr - couldn't resist sharing this video. This is a small-displacement NA 914 walking all over the big boys.
Just goes to show the value of power to weight ratio.

 

[intimdatr]

Man oh man, does it.





:theyareontome:

Dang it! i always try to proof read and missed that that dropped word.

And my god does that car go.


914's are some wicked little cars.

 

[sho'noff]

The floats on my kawasaki carbs are a pain in my backside, 4 carbs.
in the middle of a valve adjustment and it seems that all the intake valves have seated tighter, I suppose sho has valve adjustments also.
car plug wires obviously most of us have seen them and they aren't exactly wires in the traditional braided metal in a rubber sleeve. the reason for that is radio's get interference with that kind of voltage running through the metal wire. motorcycles that use carbs use a different wire.

 

[93rev2sev]

Was NOT expecting serious conversation in a thread titled UPGRADING to Carbs...

 

[sho'noff]

Was NOT expecting serious conversation in a thread titled UPGRADING to Carbs...

I hear you on that one.

 

[3d914]

That could mean we're all either very board, very lonely, or just like talking about cars - no matter how unrealistic it might be!