Unknown noise from the front

[TankII]

Replaced in the past 6 months on my summer driver '91 Plus:
Subframe bushings
Strut mounts (twice in front, once in rear)
Struts (Swapped in Monroes while my Konis were being rebuilt and put the Konis back)
Rack (Used out of a '90), tie-rods and tie-rod ends
Sway bar bushings and links
front strut-rod bushings two years ago
LCA both sides two years ago
Reinforced some spare motor mounts and installed them two years ago

Welded:
Strut-rod sleeves (two weeks ago)
Front Caliper pad sliders (and resurfaced so they don't catch anymore)
Right rear strut-rod sleeve

Problem:
Noise/clunk in front when turning, going forward/backward, over speed bumps.
You really feel it in the dead pedal spot driver's side.

I had two Ford master techs spend two weeks on the car and were unable to find anything after tearing everything apart in the front - without removing the engine/transmission.

I'm pretty good, but I'm baffled. The car is still wicked in the corners, nothing squirrley at all, so I don't know where to look. It happens at any speed, but is louder when moving than sitting still.

TankII

 

[pjtoledo]

a cheap-n-dirty test procedure for the front is 2 sheets of metal, or whatever, greased and placed under the front tires. that way you can turn the wheels fully left-right with weight on them and not grind them into the pavement. just about any hard surface material will work, use ample grease between them.

 

[TankII]

It appears to be something moving at the rear control arms only.
I'm going to try GENIII subframe bushings first, and check the recall parts from above.
If that doesn't work, I'll replace the front mounts back to the semi-suspended ones with four bolts and hope the freedom of movement in the front addresses the problems at the rear.

 

[TankII]

Tried the rear mounts with the GENIII ones - the noise is still there.
I pulled up the carpet and looked at the recall work, and no sign of an metal shavings.
The only thing I haven't personally pulled off the car a second time is the steering rack.
I don't want to do the next 60K, bodywork, or fix the AC after having put almost $3000 into the exhaust, parts, and third-party attempts at repairing the noise without having resolved this.

 

[rubydist]

are you sure that the new sway bar links are still tight?

you didn't mention anything about axle half-shafts - what is their condition and could there be a noise from the cv joints?

 

[pjtoledo]

now you get to have fun, and relieve a few frustrations.
grab a wood baseball bat, turn the wheels max left or right, and whack the tread surface. kick it too if you wish.
then grab a rubber mallet or dead-blow hammer and start playing whack-a-clunk on every part you can reach.
results are not exactly guaranteed, but at least you won't have to spend much on these procedures.

oh yeah, remember the subframe hangs from the body, it does not hold the body up.
maybe put some white-out on various bushings 'n stuff to check for movement.

 

[AREA 91]

I would check your welds at the strut rods.
Also make sure your steering rack mounting bolts are tight.

 

[pjtoledo]

I would check your welds at the strut rods.
Also make sure your steering rack mounting bolts are tight.

that brings up an interesting point.
the nuts at the front of the tension struts don't "get tight" by tightening against the bushings. rather they "get tight" via the nut hitting the step on the tension rod. that limits how much the bushings can be tightened. I had this situation on my 'ol Taurus wagon, the nuts didn't tighten the bushings enough.
the fix was easy, just put a big washer behind the nut at the front end of the tension strut. it has to fit over the step, and will provide more squish on the bushings.

as a reminder, that set of bushings and washers at the front of the tension strut carries almost all the force to accelerate and stop the car.
the front one stops you, the backside one provides the go.

 

[pjtoledo]

does "replaced motor mounts" include transmission mount?

 

[TankII]

does "replaced motor mounts" include transmission mount?

I replaced the transmission mount 12 years ago, but nobody can find a problem with it.

Everything is cranked down as far as it can go with new bushings everywhere now except the steering rack. If I had to guess, I would assume it is the rack except it happens when backing up or going forward too. Both axles are new, not remain units.
The noise is present even with the sway bar end links disconnected. Wherever it is being transmitted from, you feel it right under your feet.

 

[TankII]

now you get to have fun, and relieve a few frustrations.
grab a wood baseball bat, turn the wheels max left or right, and whack the tread surface. kick it too if you wish.
then grab a rubber mallet or dead-blow hammer and start playing whack-a-clunk on every part you can reach.
results are not exactly guaranteed, but at least you won't have to spend much on these procedures.

oh yeah, remember the subframe hangs from the body, it does not hold the body up.
maybe put some white-out on various bushings 'n stuff to check for movement.

I have tried some of this already. The sound and clunk are very metallic.
It doesn't sound like anything I have heard on the car before.

 

[TankII]

Update: I drove around with the rear subframe bushings loosened up slightly, and the noise was significantly louder. Looking at the bushings I pulled out, I can see the hole is too big - or there is too little friction for the bushings to keep the subframe from hitting the center section of the bushing. Note, I had the subframe drilled for the semi-suspended bushings, and it is possible they opened up the center hole thinking it was needed, and screwed this up. So, I'm going to thoroughly clean the subframe and bushings of any oil and see if the noise reduces or stops. The thread about 'softer suspension' had a notation the GENIII bushigns had tabs that had to be removed. Mine didn't have to be removed, they fit perfectly into some notches fore/aft in the holes. That led me to look at the old bushings and see the rubber covering the center sleeve was badly chewed up - leading me to think the holes are slightly bigger than they should be.

 

[SHOMON]

That is most def the hole in the subframe being to big for the bushing. When the rear mounting hole on my atx subframe rotted out you could feel it in the dead pedal. The metal gets very thin around there over the years.

 

[luigisho]

Some people notched the hole instead of removing the tab on the GenIII bushings. Were the GenIII bushings already on the car when you bought it?

 

[rubydist]

with a healthy subframe, the Gen3 bushings are a tight fit in that hole even after you grind off the orientation tabs, so the holes are definitely too large.

 

[TankII]

Some people notched the hole instead of removing the tab on the GenIII bushings. Were the GenIII bushings already on the car when you bought it?

I believe when I had the rear holes drilled for the four-bolt subframe bushings, the company must have opened up the center holes. Not sure why though, and the metal is very thick, only surface rust. I'll have to figure out a way to sleeve the hole now, and that should take care of the problem.
I've had the car for 200K miles as of this month, and have been through it many many times in the past 21 years. I only switched to the solid bushings in the past 18 months or so, and this problem didn't appear right away.