Underdrive pully kits

[doucebag]

Just wondering if they are a good idea.. I'm pretty sure I read before about using a Superchip or somesort of chip with the pully system, but I was just wondering if they are good or bad. Or if they have a impact on the engine life.
thanks Kevin

 

[fredhurderjr]

UDPs are strictly a mechanical upgrade, no chip required. Using an LPM to increase the rev limit is usually recommended only when a car has UDPs, so that the accessories are better protected at the higher engine RPMs.

There are issues / debates still going on about the 4th pulley (crank) being a bad idea, however. There seem to be fewest problems with the 3 pulley kits (Waterpump, Alternator, & Power Steering).

Good luck!

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

i read on some previous posts that theyre really a waste unless you have all the other mods done (exhaust, intake, cams, etc) you should search the threads and see. and by all means avoid using a "superchip". time and time again its been proven to be crap except by a few lucky and rare folk who have gotten good performance from theirs. go with a Ted Breaux LPM.

 

[jthomas68]

They have no bearing on other mods,with or without them.For the most part,UDP`s are a sefety issue.

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

safety of what exactly? his accessories or are you talking about something else? i just meant if hes using it to get that supposed 5hp from the change in accessory drag then its not worth it and most of the time not realistic. but they will save his accessories some wear and tear if thats what youre saying.

 

[doucebag]

thanx for the replys.

So they are an ok option then it sounds like. I was just wondering because I want the car to work better without dumping in a lot of money into a whole lot of extras. I want to use UDP, a chip, and a larger MAF. And mabey in the near future a 70 dry shot of No2.
Thanx again
Kevin

 

[Mike Kopstain]

I'm going to give you an alternative. The SHOforum mods and such are going to have to take my word in that I am only offering an alternative and not posting this to advertise. Most of you know me, so I doubt that is a problem. I am only offering an alternative, which is better, but I happen to be the only place to get it from. Geesh, talk about a conflict of interests. Anyhow, have a gander.

www.midwestsho.com/vaksho.html

Don't click the buttons. The catalog is closed and those Paypal buttons take you to an old account.

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Mikeys_Taurus ]</small>

 

[Runningjon]

I have had my 3 pulley SHOshop set on for a year now. They were the only thing I did when I put them on, no other mods. I don't know what kind of horsepower they freed up, but the engine after the UDP's is definitely more responsive and feels like it wants to rev up faster, I think they look pretty darn cool too.
I say go for it, they don't cost all that much, they are fairly simple to install and they don't have any negative impact on the motor.
I also haven't noticed any charging/battery issues with the alternator pulley (I had heard that batteries tend to go dead abnormally fast with UDP's on some cars, no such problems here, yet).
Good luck,
Jon

 

[PaulRuffo]

This VAK system...

"works by electronically disabling your alternator, cooling fan, and A/C compressor during wide open throttle situations"

If I'm reading into this correctly, at full throttle your alternator will not send a charge and the car will run on the battery. In that case, if you are on the throttle too much you could **** the battery. More importantly though, the alternator and water pump will still be turning at the same rpms as before, so you cannot run higher rpms like you could with UDP's and not risk harm to the accessories.

Am I wrong?

Paul

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

This VAK system...

"works by electronically disabling your alternator, cooling fan, and A/C compressor during wide open throttle situations"

ok this is straight out nonsense, for a couple of reasons:
a) at wide open throttle youre gonna use the battery for all power to the car, this includes radio, climate control, lights, ECM, sensors, etc. didnt anyone ever tell you not to listen to your radio for too long with a high powered amp? causes your voltage regulator to go nuts when your alternator is trying to charge your battery and supply your car. i know ive had it happen.

b) your cooling fan is an electric motor anyway so again this feeds off your battery. how is this helping?

c) at wide open throttle your AC shuts off anyway.

d) if all i said wasnt even true your still pulling the friction of those pullies which is where your problem lies. thats what robs power, theyre gonna still be turning. think about it UDP = different radius pulley.

bad bad bad ideas people. now i am as gullible as the next person but i couldnt let this go without saying something. now im not trying to start a war here and im not trying to flame anyone, but this seems like a gross misrepresentation to me. if im not getting something please tell me so i can learn. then ill say, live and learn in my case.

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: BlackOnBlackATX ]</small>

 

[Yamaha V6]

Gee Mike, does Paul Nimz know about this? wink

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Yamaha V6:
Gee Mike, does Paul Nimz know about this? wink

I think Paul should try this mod.

First of all, for those calling BS. This is on several cars right now, has been tested on the track, and yields much better results than under drive pulleys.

Please, know a little about what you are talking about before you call BS. Do you know how an alternator works, or underdrive pullies for that matter? Underdrive pullies release some of the power it takes to spin the accessories by using larger pulleys, which in turn makes them easier to spin, but comes at the expense of a slower spinning accessory, which, at idle, could mean problems. Luckily it hasn't been that big of a problem on the SHOs.

The more power the car requires, the harder it is to spin the alternator. By releasing load on the alternator, it basically free wheels at WOT, thus freeing up a lot more than an underdrive pulley ever could.

There is more of a load on the battery, but certainly nothing it can't handle. Lets say, by chance, you want to accelerate from 0 - 100mph. That takes you about 16 seconds we'll say, unless you're Fred. That 16 seconds of no alternator is still a fraction of the load it takes to start your car. If you're like me you are constantly at WOT... Not a problem. I was driving a 91 MTX the other day when the alternator belt snapped on the expressway. We were still 15 minutes from my friends house, but we made it back fine, without a charge. Not only that, but we listened to the radio, and the next day when we went to getthe belt, we started the car up and drove it to Autozone. Get my point? Basically there are no worries of problems with charging. It's better to use a deep discharge, but it's definetly not required.

I have installed this on 1 GL, I will be installing another one on a 95 ATX SHO tomorrow, and another Thursday on a 91 MTX.

The VAK responds quicker than the ECM at cutting the A/C. There are no variable, such as there are with the A/C. Once you reach a position on the throttle, it's off, as well as the cooling fan.

Whether the product works or not is not a question, whether or not you want to believe it does, is the question.

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Mikeys_Taurus ]</small>

 

[SHO Shop]

I'd be interested to see what a Dyno had to report. Anyone can just throw a random number out there. I'm going with BlackonBlackATX on this one.

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: SHO Shop ]</small>

 

[Slo-Sho]

The EEC-IV will not energize the cooling fans above a preset speed. (40mph???)

 

[Mike Kopstain]

I believe you are right, but even so, from 0 - 40mph they are still there and are a major draw.

 

[luigisho]

With Paul's 1/4 times I believe it. Plus, I think I've seen mention of it elsewhere. Dyno #'s are always the true test but I'm inclined to believe there is a positive output effect.

 

[Mike Kopstain]

The product does work. There are numbers and Paul can be the one to dispense those numbers. People that understand how underdrive pulleys work understand that power is freed because the accessories are made easier to turn via bigger pullies. Let's say that you could remove all the accessories and keep the pullies. You can change the size of those free wheeling pulleys and there would be nominal change in power draw on them. The size of the pullies only changes how hard it is to spin the accessories. Anyone who wants to know more about that have a gander at www.howstuffworks.com and look at "How pullies work".

SHO Shop:
I'd be interested to see what a Dyno had to report. Anyone can just throw a random number out there. I'm going with BlackonBlackATX on this one.

I'm curious. Who through out the random number?

On another note, and really I'm not trying to be rude, but I think that it is hard for you as a vendor to have a non-bias opinion. People respect what you say because of the business you are in, so it's your duty to be extra careful about what you say and be sure about what you're talking about, because people quite commonly refer to your shop as the SHO bible.

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: Mikeys_Taurus ]</small>

 

[doucebag]

Is there anyone that has the VAK system on there sho? It sounds like it works and has me intrested, but I was wondering if anyone has a yes/no opion on it.

 

[Mike Kopstain]

First, I'm really sorry I took your thread O/T. I only wanted to point it out as an option, not start a discussion on space physics and the effect of monkeys in a sealed enviroment.

With that said, I will see if I can get one of the guys that bought them to post. If I can't get the GL guy to post, I will force the SHO guy to post tomorrow as he is a friend of mine. Ideally I want to show everyone numbers, because I think numbers have a lot more credibilty than someone (me) who has a vested interest in the product getting people who bought it to post.

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: Mikeys_Taurus ]</small>

 

[bradman]

Well, I have no doubt that this VAK system will remove the alternator and A/C load (no PS benefit on gen 1 or 2 SHO), therefore provide a performance advantage at WOT. However, the A/C compressor can be manually turned off via the climate control, so the only real benefit is removing the alternator load at WOT. What percentage of the time are most people driving at WOT? UDP's give a performance gain 100% of the time AND extend accesory life.