timing belt

[copperpacecar]

put a new timing belt in and had the crank move while installation. i set the dots on the cam gears to line up with the mark in the cover and set the crank to where the mark on the balancer lined up with the "0" mark on the cover....after this tried to start the car and its way way out of mechanical timing...what did i do wrong?

 

[OmMEGGA]

After you crank it for the first time timing belt lines wont align anymore with the dots on the cam gears. Its normal.

 

[kevinspann]

You would have been better to use the dot on the timing belt pulley on the crank. What line on the timing belt did you use?

 

[copperpacecar]

there is a dot on each cam gear...i lined those dots straight up toward the marks on the cover behind the cam gears.
the crank gear had no markings at all but i noticed that the plastic cover that covers that gear had timing marks and that the harmonic balancer has timing marks. i put the cover back on and slid the balancer on a hair and lined the mark on the balancer to the "0" mark on the cover. slid the balancer back off and removed the cover and reinstalled the belt.

 

[copperpacecar]

i saw no dot on the crank gear...teh only thing i see on the crank gear is the two threaded holes for removing the gear and the keyway...other than that there are no marking on the gear on either my 3.0 or 3.2 motors

 

[jayro]

i saw no dot on the crank gear...teh only thing i see on the crank gear is the two threaded holes for removing the gear and the keyway...other than that there are no marking on the gear on either my 3.0 or 3.2 motors

I dont think it would have worn away. There has been one on every crank sprocket I have messed with. The dot is small and up on the edge of one of the teeth. If you dont see it, clean it up real well and look agian.

 

[copperpacecar]

thanks guys...its amazing what a wire brush will do...so i now have the crank gear dot located....when the cam gear dots are all the way up where should the crank gear dot be?

 

[jayro]

thanks guys...its amazing what a wire brush will do...so i now have the crank gear dot located....when the cam gear dots are all the way up where should the crank gear dot be?

Cam gears at 12 o'clock. Line up the marks on the belt with the cam gear dots. The dot on the crank sprocket lines up with the 3rd line on the belt. If there are 2 lines on the belt for the crank sprocket I believe the MTX mark it the first one (closest to the cam gear if you are tracing the belt clockwise). There are plenty of timing threads if you search.

 

[msteiny]

Line the crankshaft dot up with the mark on the oil pump at the 5 o'clock position.

 

[intimdatr]

 

[rubydist]

put a new timing belt in and had the crank move while installation. i set the dots on the cam gears to line up with the mark in the cover and set the crank to where the mark on the balancer lined up with the "0" mark on the cover....after this tried to start the car and its way way out of mechanical timing...what did i do wrong?

you must use the marks on the belt to get the timing right - if you do it like above, once you tighten the belt, you will be off at least 2 teeth on the timing.

 

[copperpacecar]

i triple checked the belt and it was correct...this belt and motor are part of a 3.0 to 3.2 conversion. motor still fires incorrectly...seems like massive mech timing problem. i repeat the belt is on 100% correct. so far installed two different 3.0 wiring harnesses, two cam sensors, two crank sensors, to ignitions, two coil packs and checked wires four different times. could a faulty computer cause the engine to fire so far out of timing?

 

[Racer X]

Where are you looking for the wire connection order? They should be connected like this:

 

[jayro]

Where are you looking for the wire connection order? They should be connected like this:

This x2. Many of the manuals have the wrong order listed.

 

[Bob Gervais]

Since this is essentially a 3.2 swap...

-Did you swap in the 3.0 cams? How's the cam timing?

-Did you swap all of the 3.0 timing components onto the 3.2 (idler and tensioner)?

-Did your timing belt have two marks on it for the crank gear? Which one did you use?

Asking these questions because you're stating that it's a mechanical timing problem. The only things that would cause that are timing belt, and cam timing.

Also, have you checked compression? If the mechanical timing is off, compression should show up funky.

 

[jayro]

Since this is essentially a 3.2 swap...

-Did you swap in the 3.0 cams? How's the cam timing?

-Did you swap all of the 3.0 timing components onto the 3.2 (idler and tensioner)?

-Did your timing belt have two marks on it for the crank gear? Which one did you use?

Asking these questions because you're stating that it's a mechanical timing problem. The only things that would cause that are timing belt, and cam timing.
.

Just to satisfy my curiousity. If you ran 3.2 heads on a 3.2 MTX swap, you would still use the 3.0 timing method as long as you are running the 3.0/mtx timing belt tensioner, correct? The reason there is a different mark on the belt for the ATX is because the tensioner is a different set up.

I have never really messed with the atx and was just curious.

 

[Bob Gervais]

Just to satisfy my curiousity. If you ran 3.2 heads on a 3.2 MTX swap, you would still use the 3.0 timing method as long as you are running the 3.0/mtx timing belt tensioner, correct? The reason there is a different mark on the belt for the ATX is because the tensioner is a different set up.

I have never really messed with the atx and was just curious.

Correct.

 

[rubydist]

To make it very simple, if you have the idler on the tight side of the timing belt, like used on the 3.2, then you need to use the 3.2 timing marks. If you only have the tensioner idler, then you use the 3.0 timing marks. It does not depend on engine size, it depends if you have that front idler for the 3.2 accessories.

 

[copperpacecar]

i kept the 3.2 motor the same. i didnt swap out any of the cams and the block is still using the 3.2 tensioner and belt. i just made a new system for running the water pump and alternator. and kept the 3.2 the same.

 

[copperpacecar]

and i did not use the timing belt method to time the motor...after assembling everything, and before i know how to do it with the marks, i had actually assembled it correctly the first time.(i think) the dots on the cams face 12 oclock and face the marks on the cover and the crank dot faces 5 oclock and points to the raised section in the oil pump. it also points to "0" on the cover with the balancer installed. i have checked the plug wires god knows how many times and now i have also replaced the computer in the car.