Throttle body mods & Brake lines

[rakarb]

OK answer guys, 2 more inane questions...
Anybody ever seen a heat insulator plate on the SHO engine? 1/2" Garlite / Nylon / Ceramic, something to block the heat from the runners to the throttle body? If not, Anybody got a spare gasket I can copy?
-AND-
How much change between the 4 wheel disc brake Mustang lines and the Gen3 disc brake lines? or, Can I get a braided hose kit meant for a Mustang and put it on the SHO?

 

[SHOZ123]

I've got a gasket. I run my PCV fresh air through mine. It keeps the TB nice and cool.

 

[rakarb]

SHOZ123:
I've got a gasket. I run my PCV fresh air through mine. It keeps the TB nice and cool.

I've heard of that mod, how is it done?
What can I give 'ya for the gasket?

 

[mholhut]

Kirk and I were thinking of doing a TB spacer to help increase airflow like the mustang guys use. Maybe a 1" thick piece of milled aluminum. I've got a a spare TB and gasket to use as a template. Where do you get ceramic stock, and what is Garlite???

You can bypass the coolant lines to the TB which seems to help prevent warm coolant from heating the TB. Never heard of running fresh air through it though...

Not sure about the compatability between the mustang and SHO brake lines or SS brake lines for that matter. As long as you get the right size fittings, you should be able to make a set of SS brake hoses. There's alot of descrepency over their use, however.

 

[rakarb]

Garlite is that fiber /wood like, bakelite stuff a few mfg's use for throttle body insulators. No thermal conductivity. Ceramics, machinable types can be had thru Mcmaster Carr, watch applications tho, those are tricky to choose. Some nylons will work, as will acrylics. I was thinking along the lines of 1/2" or so in thickness. Where can I get a spare TB and at what price or trade?
Will machine for parts...

 

[mholhut]

I'll send ya a TB and gasket as long as I get it back . . . with one of your insulators too wink

email me at: [email protected] or [email protected]

 

[Croaker]

Someone SLOW HIM DOWN!
He's a madman on the Loose!

-Croaker wink

 

[rakarb]

Madman? hahahahahahahaha!!!
Anyway, was mistaken on the materials, the proper name is Garolite, it's a trade name for phenolic. Have ordered a 12" x 12" x 1/2" piece for prototype work. If my guesstimate is correct I should be able to build 2 or 3 at least from this.
The ceramic would be cost prohibitive, but extremely cool.
My new connector got finished today, (between the MAF and throttle body) a nylon version of the aluminum prototype. This version will reduce heat transfer as well.
Someday I will post the whole 9 yards in picture form...

<small>[ April 02, 2002, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: rakarb ]</small>

 

[Jason King]

Guys, I would spend the money on things other then a Throtle Body spacer. The thing I would spend my time and money on is halfshafting and knife edging the stock TB. Also blending the TB is a good idea. TB spacers really don't do anything other then leave a hole in your pocket where money use to be. Its a hoax built around the carb and TBI (throttle body injection) spacers that actually work. The reason thoes work is b/c air and fuel is mixed at the same time in the upper plenum. With our highly advanced direct port injection motors fuel is added just before the combustion chamber. As a result, TB spacers are just a waste of money. Another great place to spend some money would be on a upper to lower intake phenolic spacer. That would help keep the temps of incoming air down from the time it enters your cone till it passes the spacer.

 

[Croaker]

I think Rakarb has too much time on his hands, but it only helps me out so I wont say anything...maybe he needs a hobby?

wink

Preach On Brother!

-Croaker

 

[rakarb]

The temperature aspect is the whole crux of my asking about the spacer.
The money issue is why I am machining my own from phenolic. The raw material for 3 to 4 spacers will set me back $24.00, vs $60.00 for somebody else's version.
I am interested in the rest of those mods you spoke of, and may very well tackle some or all of them along the way. thumbs_u

 

[mholhut]

Hmmmmm.... maybe make a spacer out of the same material that fits between the upper and lower intakes? How thick/thin would/should this be? Brad, I can send you the lower intake and gaskets as well if you want to start work on this project as well. I'd imagine that the surge tank supports on the back would have to be hogged out to allow for the added height of the intake spacer.

For $8, It's not exactly a hole in my pocket to try this mod. At the very least, it will help in the atomization of my dry nitrous setup.

What is "halfshafting and knife edging" the TB? What's involved with this???

 

[rakarb]

mholhut
What is "halfshafting and knife edging" the TB? What's involved with this???[/QB]

This is tedious work with a Dremel and polishing attachments.
Could be done to that extra body you're sending with the other parts. (You have mail)

<small>[ April 02, 2002, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: rakarb ]</small>

 

[SHODWN]

"The reason thoes work is b/c air and fuel is mixed at the same time in the upper plenum."

Wrong there mixed in the lower plenum on a GEN3, space the secondary plate from the head, and space the runners from that and maybe you have something.

 

[mholhut]

SHODWN:
"The reason thoes work is b/c air and fuel is mixed at the same time in the upper plenum."

Wrong there mixed in the lower plenum on a GEN3, space the secondary plate from the head, and space the runners from that and maybe you have something.

Uhhh, dude? He's talking about the spacers working on TBI cars, where air and fuel are mixed in the plenum. BTW, our EFI cars mix it in the cylinders. Therefor, by Jason's analogy, the spacer would not have the same benefit. Cooling the air before it ignites is the benefit. A TB spacer on an EFI car would simply cool the air before it gets reheated by the plenum. What we need (boooohahahahaha) is a cooling spacer between the upper and lower intakes. Weez workin' on dat!

 

[Jason King]

SHODWN:
"The reason thoes work is b/c air and fuel is mixed at the same time in the upper plenum."

Wrong there mixed in the lower plenum on a GEN3, space the secondary plate from the head, and space the runners from that and maybe you have something.

Please re-read my previous post.

 

[jhawk]

So the purpose is to isolate a small metal object(tb) from a big metal object(intake)? How long is the air in the tb? How long is it in the intake? How much area does the tb have to transefer heat to the air? How much area does the intake have to transfer heat to the air? And let's not forget how fst the air is moving. Isolating the tb from the intake will do nothing since the intakes ability to heat up the air is far greater than that of the tb.

A good cold air system will reap far better benefits

 

[Mac98SHO]

rakarb,

I think thermo insulator would be better suited between the lower intake and upper intake. This would probally a better way of controlling heat to the upper intake. (IE Mustang type) The throttle body would only (IMHO) provide a better air folw path while heat charactoristics would be minumal (sp)

Okay who's got the lower to uper intake gasket A side thought, the back support brackets would need to be lengthed a tad, proball have to mill new ones

thumbs_u

 

[rakarb]

OK let's take this from the top.
A) I have fabbed up a 'cold air' intake.
B) I have isolated the air filter from the engine heat. And am in the process of perforating the hood to introduce more cool air. wink
C) I have fabricated connections from the air filter,to the MAF up to the throttle body of less restricting and non thermal conductive materials.
D) I am in the process of isolating the throttle body from the manifold, and the manifolds (runners) from the engine itself.

If you blow air across a HOT object, the air leaving that object has picked up heat. Therefore, IMHO, if the conduits that the air passes thru are isolated from latent heat, they stay cooler, hence the incoming air stays cooler.
To sum it up, if I can indeed isolate SOME of the heat from transfering to the manifold runners, have I not done a good thing for the combusting aspect of my engine?
AND, does not every little bit help?

 

[Mac98SHO]

Okay in coming air would keep TB cool isolating would serve no purpose. (You ask for it ). The TB doesnt make any heat (once the coolant lines are removed), the engine does therefore just by isolating the lower intake from the top you would have accomplished this feat. All you have to contend with is radiant heat. Kirk has the solved with his hood.

Or leaving fans on would create airflow to minamize radiat heat from engine also. (my simple mod)

Oh by the way you have to remove the EGR ... add heat thumbs_u

This above statement is my opinion only, with some experience thrown into it just for fun. burn_out

<small>[ April 03, 2002, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: Mac98SHO ]</small>