TB bypass?

[nw_mr2]

Wow, you don't need to be a ******* about it. Have you ever passed a high school physics course?

oh lord.

Look. The RADIATOR is there to radiate head into the air. The Throttle body is there to control the amount of air going into the engine. The throttle body is not meant to absorb heat from the engine. Jeez.

That's like saying you put your hand on a hot oven to absorb the heat from the burner element. You just go ahead and do that if you think it's a good idea.

How about put a big ****ing chunk of metal like the SHO intake on top of a burner element. Over time it WILL absorb the heat (energy) and the temperature of the burner plate will lessen as the intake on top warms up. My point was that it seemed like the intake would act as a sort of heatsink. Obviously it wouldn't do much but I don't see the engine running any cooler with the TB Bypass done. Intake manifold temp |= engine temp.

So seriously, stop freaking out about the engine getting hot.

I had been watching the temperatures because I just bought the car and at idle the temperature will get up near the "N" on the gauge, so don't tell me to stop "freaking out" about it.

 

[SASHO91]

The only REAL reason that could be used to say that one should do this "mod" is that it makes removing the intake much easier. Sure it doesn't allow the intake to heat up, but in reality, it's not going to help make more power from this engine. Plain as that.

No need to get into a ******* match over a stupid modification on a car.... on a forum..... on the INTERNET! Just drop it.

 

[nw_mr2]

The only REAL reason that could be used to say that one should do this "mod" is that it makes removing the intake much easier. Sure it doesn't allow the intake to heat up, but in reality, it's not going to help make more power from this engine. Plain as that.

No need to get into a ******* match over a stupid modification on a car.... on a forum..... on the INTERNET! Just drop it.

Agreed, that was my point in questioning the claim of "your engine will run cooler".

cya.:wave:

 

[93rev2sev]

Well ya know...the "danger zone" for throttle body freeze is a couple of degrees ABOVE freezing. When moist cold air gets sucked in by the engine, it's under vacuum and naturally lowers in temperature. This drop in temp causes the moisture in the air to condense and freeze...potentially freezing your TB open.

 

[SHOZ123]

In the last 30 years of driving in Illinois the only time I saw any freezing up of the throttle was on a Triumph with twin Stromberg 1bbl carbs. And this caused the car to slowly loose speed. Never a problem on any SHO. It would take a very unique set of circumstances to cause this and shutting off the engine for a minute would thaw anything out.

I think there is one person on this forum that said this happened to them.

The engine will not run cooler but the intake will. But if you have a functioning EGR it's a waste of time as that will add ten times as much heat to the intake.

 

[Brett]

Always hear about your TB freezing, drove my car daily in a northern minnesota winter (thats by canada kids!) for an entire winter without a problem. Go to start my car now that i havent driven it this winter, was still barely above 0, still no problem. During that winter i drove it, routinely below -0.

 

[firstgen89sho]

I've been driving my car anywhere from freezing down to -30 (that's Celsius folks), with the TB and IAC bypassed with no freezing concerns...

 

[shobote]

Agreed, that was my point in questioning the claim of "your engine will run cooler".

cya.:wave:

Do you know what a heat sink is ? the cooled intake absorbs heat from the engine and is the equivalent of adding a small radiator; it also adds power; think of of when drag racers ice down their intakes before a run. Oh, I slept through HS physics; then studied 4 semesters Physics in college and 2 in grad school....

 

[shobote]

You also must realize that the only reason the intake is cool is becaus cold air is moving through it WHEN THE ENGINE IS RUNNING. AFter a run, the intake will absorb the heat and become hotter but it is 100% guaranteed cool when running which adds power without question, as cold air is denser. As all drag racers calculatem air temps, humidity, altitiude, etc before tuning, every 11 degree drop in intake charge adds 1% more HP.

 

[nw_mr2]

Do you know what a heat sink is ? the cooled intake absorbs heat from the engine and is the equivalent of adding a small radiator; it also adds power; think of of when drag racers ice down their intakes before a run. Oh, I slept through HS physics; then studied 4 semesters Physics in college and 2 in grad school....

I think you're misunderstanding me. That was exactly my point..

 

[hawkeye18]

we're discussing two types of heat. I think that's why everybody's getting upset. And yes, I have studied physics up to and including quantum physics and quantum mechanics. Anyway, credentials are not the point.

As, er, somebody mentioned, the biggest immediate gain is that you don't have to deal with coolant any more when you take the intake off. IMHO, that alone is worth it. But you're talking about the intake acting as a heat sink to the engine, which of course it will, given enough time and a low volume of air coming through the intake. But running hot coolant at ~200 degrees through the throttle body heats the throttle body up much hotter than the intake gets (you got problems if your intake is getting to 200 degrees!).

Removing the coolant line makes it so that the TB no longer heats up the air charge entering the engine (at least, heats it up more than the intake would). As I'm sure you know, being mr. physics 'n all, hotter air is less dense air, which gives less power. Therefore, having a cooler TB enables cooler air to get into the engine, which gives more power.

That having been said, the differences are probably pretty miniscule, on the order of tenths of percentage points. But, those pennies add up over time...

 

[hawkeye18]

And I'm making a separate post to address your underlying issue, which is the engine getting hot. When does it get the hottest? At idle or at cruising speeds? Do you hear the radiator fans kicking on? If you know how to do a KOEO test (search KOEO to find out how to do it), do it and see if the fan(s) kick on. They should. If they don't, that's likely your problem.

Also, check under the subframe and make sure that little plastic strip mounted to the bottom of the front crossmember is still there. That piece directs air from under the car into the radiator; without that strip the radiator won't get enough air (you think that little hole in the front is enough?) and the car will overheat like a champ.

You will not lose any cooling ability by bypassing the TB. ...well, I shouldn't say that. You might lose like .005% cooling ability. It's kind of like adding a hamster to a dodge viper for supplemental power. It's failry inconsequential.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Induction icing, while rare in modern automobiles, is a legitimate concern and the entire reason behind the factory plumbing the coolant circuit through the throttle body.

It requires just the right set of conditions (and extreme cold isn't one of them). A steady throttle position for an extended period of time, coupled with just the right temperature, dew point, and velocity of the induction air can combine to creating icing on the throttle bore and plate. Enough of a buildup can cause the throttle plate to get stuck in position. This is a common problem in piston airplanes which all have carburetor heat for carbureted engines or an alternate induction air source for fuel injected engines.

Most people who are aware of the issue can usually remedy it with just a couple swift stabs at the throttle or simply shutting off the engine, but like many other vehicle safety features it is designed for the least common denominator types who might otherwise panic and lose control of their vehicle.

An additional concern is that in low clearance engines (more so on the V8 cars than the V6 cars), ingesting a chunk of ice into a cylinder has the risk of causing significant damage.

Personally, other than making the intake manifold cooler to the touch, I don't think bypassing the TB cooling circuit makes a measurable performance difference. Like many other mods I think more of it is in people's heads than anything else. But, I don't think it's something worth getting all up in arms about either. As mentioned, countless people have done it from all different parts of North America without any problems. Just make an informed decision.

 

[Pro*banshee]

An additional concern is that in low clearance engines (more so on the V8 cars than the V6 cars), ingesting a chunk of ice into a cylinder has the risk of causing significant damage.

Is THAT why my jaw shatters every time I bite down on an ice cube?


By the time the ice cube is small enough to fit down the intake gap and hold the valve open (it won't with 100+ pounds of spring force anyway) it's already too small to do damage. I call BS here

 

[hawkeye18]

crazier shit has happened.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Is THAT why my jaw shatters every time I bite down on an ice cube?

By the time the ice cube is small enough to fit down the intake gap and hold the valve open (it won't with 100+ pounds of spring force anyway) it's already too small to do damage. I call BS here

Try biting down on the ice cube with the assistance of a hammer and see what that does to your jaw.

I've seen pea-sized chunks of carbon break off and destroy valves and pistons, you don't think ice could do the same?

 

[Pro*banshee]

I respectfully* disagree, I do not sir.

Carbon is a lot different than ice in terms of ease of transistion between states, and strength of crystals when joined together

Carbon in an engine would destroy it in little time I do agree though. Depending on how well it's compressed and held together it could be like dumping caked powdered sugar or raw diamonds in the intake

Ice; despite its Titanic-sinking ability, wouldn't be able to be sucked in a large enough piece into the intake without either clogging it and speeding melting, breaking up and melting even more rapidly, or if you managed to fit an icicle down there, without breaking and melting


Water injection is used in engines regularly so no harm there... In fact one of the products of complete combustion IS water


*respectfully disagreeing=way to keep a thread open and full of win instead of ban and lock

 

[Mr Anonymous]

You're assuming that ingested ice will have the opportunity to change states before causing damage, and will be of a size and shape to not interfere with valve operation or make it past the valve, and will be a single and not multiple pieces of ice.

That's a lot of assumption.

Intake air makes it to the cylinders in a matter of milliseconds. Foreign objects can move with that air just as fast. Take an engine running at 2400 RPM. That means that the piston is reaching TDC 40 times per second and the intake and exhaust valves are each opening and closing 20 times each per second. If a chunk of ice large enough to interfere with an intake valve stays ice for even 1 second, that's 20 opportunities for the ice and its remnants to potentially damage the valve, face, piston, etc. Multiply that by multiple pieces of ice breaking free from an induction icing incident. Sure it may be remote, but not impossible.

Next time your car is at full temperature, take a shard of ice let's say 6mm thick by 12mm long -- enough to get caught in to get by the valves -- and just place it on your intake and time how long it takes to melt.

And yes, water is a byproduct of the combustion process but try filling a cylinder with water and see what happens then.

Again, this is all theoretical, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. Look at how a little piece of ice can damage the impellers on a jet engine.

 

[hawkeye18]

Nothing is impossible, and to assume that it is is silly. Is it *probable* that ice will get past the TB, lodge itself in a valve and royally f#%* your engine up? Not really. But it sure as **** is possible.

Why are people arguing about this?

 

[Kens1992mtxSHO]

I think Chris knows what he's talking about.