SHO thermostats...

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wood_e

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Not knowing the prior service history I believe I have a 180 degree thermostat in my SHO. Does this pose a problem? Will my car run rich because of this? I know the ATX specifies a 195 degree one....

<small>[ August 02, 2003, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: wood_e ]</small>
 

Shoaz

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wood_e:
Not knowing the prior service history I believe I have a 180 degree thermostat in my SHO. Does this pose a problem? Will my car run rich because of this? I know the ATX specifies a 195 degree one....
Yes, it will run rich. The associated maintenance issues can result, including problems with the cats, cylinder wear, etc. The system was designed to run with the 195F (88C) thermostat, and you're correct that that's the OEM spec.
 

drdave

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Disregard what the old-timers will tell you. Go with the 192. For starters, you'll get better gas mileage. For hours of fun SHO reading, do a search on the topic. This debate has been raging for years.
 

Mike Kopstain

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Unless you're running cool enough to through the computer into limp mode, the cooler you can get it, the better.

I run my car without a Thermostat during the summer months. My A/F gauge reads the same as it does with the thermostat in and when the motor is sitting at 150 degrees on a hot summer night, it's got a lot more pep then if it were running at 210.

Despite what most will tell you, the T-Stat will allow the car to fully warm up. In stop and go driving, my car will hit regular temperatures... enough to make the fan cycle. This is not, however, a winter mod. :)

<small>[ August 02, 2003, 03:28 AM: Message edited by: Mikeys_Taurus ]</small>
 

SHOZ123

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No it will not run rich. It will run less efficiently but your performance will be greater due to the cooler intake and denser fuel/air mixture. This will cause higher fuel consumption best regulated by the right foot.

Cold loop is below 120F and a time from start thing.
 

Off Road SHO

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SHOZ123

How did you find out what the cut-off temperature is? I thought it was at 150 degrees but I've been wrong so many times in my life before that I've gotten used to it. :(

Tom
 

wood_e

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SO basically I should just stop worrying about it... I mean most of the time my temp gauge gets to the L and in traffic sometimes gets above the A. The car seems to run great. I get good gas mileage (26MPG), and the fans cycle on when driving.
 

Shoaz

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Mikeys_Taurus:
Unless you're running cool enough to through the computer into limp mode, the cooler you can get it, the better.

I run my car without a Thermostat during the summer months. My A/F gauge reads the same as it does with the thermostat in and when the motor is sitting at 150 degrees on a hot summer night, it's got a lot more pep then if it were running at 210.

Despite what most will tell you, the T-Stat will allow the car to fully warm up. In stop and go driving, my car will hit regular temperatures... enough to make the fan cycle. This is not, however, a winter mod. :)
I'd be worried about this without really knowing the full engineering tradeoffs not only in the EEC but in the lubrication and metallurgy. I can see an argument for the EEC being able to compensate to minimize richening, but there are more things to consider that I've never really seen addressed.

There's no question that lower temperature creates opportunities for more power, but, like everything else, it comes at a cost.

The 88C t-stat is a little warmer than typical for many more plebian engines. I'd be personally reluctant to change from the design temperature without better knowledge of what the tradeoffs were that drove the original selection of that operating temperature for this engine.

Anybody know the scoop on the details?
 

shojuan

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One of these days somebody needs to corner Gary Morrell and pick his brain on this issue. If he's already written about the t-stat issue on the big list or the Tech-SHO list then maybe somebody could dig up what he said and post it here. Gary was in fact a test engineer on the SHO project was he not?
 

shojuan

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FOR SHO:
I just got a 190 (might of been 192) tstat from autozone. It was like 7 bucks so im happy.
I'm sure it will serve you fine. But everybody should keep in mind that the Motorcraft thermostat isn't just extra dollars spent for nothing. On full open the Motorcraft thermostat flows more coolant than any other thermostat currently available for the SHO. To me that's more important than the whole 180 vs 190 degree argument. But that's just me.
 

Machspeed

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How much more is the ford one? At the dealer is what liek 40 bux. I think i might of saw it at midwestsho for like 25ish?
 

Mr Anonymous

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wood_e:
Not knowing the prior service history I believe I have a 180 degree thermostat in my SHO. Does this pose a problem? Will my car run rich because of this? I know the ATX specifies a 195 degree one....
I'm curious what makes you think you have a 180 deg. t-stat when you first say that you don't know the prior service history?

If your gas mileage is OK, your temp gauge reaches the normal range when the car is warm and you don't have any other reasons to suspect a t-stat problem, it doesn't really matter which one is currently installed! :)

When the time does come to replace your t-stat, I'd recommend following Rick's advice and spring the extra few bucks for the Motorcraft.
 

Mike Kopstain

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Dave,

The one you saw at my site is the kit for $29.99... It comes with the B revision T-Stat, gasket, and gauge sender.

My car always runs better cooler. It is a very noticable difference also, and I'm not talking about ambient air temperature; I'm talking about engine temperature.

One thing I noticed, that's not much of a shock, is that at 150 degrees, my idle oil pressure goes up to about 21 lbs.

Other than that, I get about 250 miles to the 16 gallon(SLO) tank, but I'm sure the fact that I have a really heavy right foot contributes to that. :)

If there is one thing that everyone's SHO should have, and I'm sure everyone here can afford, it's gauges. The whole "Normal" range on your stock cluster is about a 10 degree window. What do you think the look on your mechanic's face is going to be when you tell him that your car is running in the "A"? :)

If you can't afford to know what your car is doing, you can't afford your car. Of course, that is my ever so humble opinion. :)

<small>[ August 02, 2003, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Mikeys_Taurus ]</small>
 

Shoaz

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wood_e

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SHOooo:
wood_e:
Not knowing the prior service history I believe I have a 180 degree thermostat in my SHO. Does this pose a problem? Will my car run rich because of this? I know the ATX specifies a 195 degree one....
I'm curious what makes you think you have a 180 deg. t-stat when you first say that you don't know the prior service history?

If your gas mileage is OK, your temp gauge reaches the normal range when the car is warm and you don't have any other reasons to suspect a t-stat problem, it doesn't really matter which one is currently installed! :)

When the time does come to replace your t-stat, I'd recommend following Rick's advice and spring the extra few bucks for the Motorcraft.
I judged from the temp gauge that I probably had a 180 in there. It almost never goes past the A even in traffic. Probably not the most accurate of perceptions, but good enough for me.
 

LaTechSHO

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wood_e:
SHOooo:
wood_e:
Not knowing the prior service history I believe I have a 180 degree thermostat in my SHO. Does this pose a problem? Will my car run rich because of this? I know the ATX specifies a 195 degree one....
I'm curious what makes you think you have a 180 deg. t-stat when you first say that you don't know the prior service history?

If your gas mileage is OK, your temp gauge reaches the normal range when the car is warm and you don't have any other reasons to suspect a t-stat problem, it doesn't really matter which one is currently installed! :)

When the time does come to replace your t-stat, I'd recommend following Rick's advice and spring the extra few bucks for the Motorcraft.
I judged from the temp gauge that I probably had a 180 in there. It almost never goes past the A even in traffic. Probably not the most accurate of perceptions, but good enough for me.
incorrect.... if it doesn't go BELOW 180 after it has reached normal operating temperature then you have most likely have a 180 degree thermostat... similarly if it doesn't go below 192 then you probably have a 192 degree thermostat

a thermostat is either open or closed... and it stays closed until a MINIMUM temperature is reached, at which point the thing opens and allows the cooling system to do its job.


look at it like having a thermostat on a heater for your house (not a/c mode, heat mode) ... if you have the thermostat set at 72 degrees... the heater won't turn on if it is 80 degrees... but only if it is BELOW 72 degrees

in a perfectly functional cooling system, the system will be able to keep the engine as cool as the thermostat allows it to (assuming it isn't a million degrees outside)

this all means that the thermostat controls the minimum temperature of your operational range while the rest of the cooling system works to keep it at that temperature.


Louis
 

Off Road SHO

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Shoaz
The 88C t-stat is a little warmer than typical for many more plebian engines. [/QB]
Plebian? laughing laughing laughing

That's a great one Eric. Sounds so aristocratic.

Tom the Plebe
 

Mr Anonymous

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wood_e:
I judged from the temp gauge that I probably had a 180 in there. It almost never goes past the A even in traffic. Probably not the most accurate of perceptions, but good enough for me.
Actually, my '94 ATX with the 192 deg. t-stat hovers right around the 'A', and I think if you read through enough threads on the forum you will find that to be the norm. The only time it will go higher is if I have the climate control set on a setting that doesn't engage the cooling fans constantly (vent, floor, or off).
 

sdpatt

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Just for accuracy, the 3.0L SHO was OEM fitted with an 82C (179.6F) thermostat and the 3.2L SHO was OEM fitted with an 88C (190.4F) version. Many "plebian" engines are supplied with 195F thermostats for emissions and mileage reasons. The 180F 'stats are usually referred to as "low temperature" versions. The only way to know the temperature at which the thermostat opens is to physically measure the temperature of the thermostat housing both upstream and downstream of the ******. It may be marked "82C," but it may actually open at 80C or 84C. You just have to check to be sure.
 
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