Shifting problems

[MOSHO92]

There has been a lot of talk about hard shifts or grinding when shifting recently and though it is very helpful, I have a few more questions.

I have been having problems shifting recently. It seems to me that I have to put far too much effort on the shift **** for it to go into gear. I does NOT grind at all.

Let me start with a little background clarification: I replaced the clutch about 3000 miles ago with a Southbend TZ series clutch disk and pressure plate. I used the provided Southbend throw out bearing and quill sleve (yes I used locktite on the sleve). I also replaced the flywheel with a Fidanza unit.

When reinstalling the transmission I used 3 quarts of regular Dex-Merc III ATF. As soon as everything was up and running I began to notice the problem...

-First thing I did was tighten the cable by pulling up on the pedal.
Here is a question: If I push in the clutch pedal in all the way (while the engine is running) and put it into any gear to stop the rotation of the disk, then without letting the clutch back in, take it out of that gear and slowly put it into reverse and hear no grinding at all, does that mean that the clutch is fully disengaged? I can do that. Even if I wait 30 seconds after taking it out of a forward gear, I can still put it in reverse without grinding.

-Second: I drained some fluid back out of the tranny. (I had orginally filled it on jack stands). That didnt help much, if at all.

-Third: Replaced fluid with GM Syncrmesh and drained to the correct level. Didnt help at all.

That is all for now. I dont know what else to do. Shifting from 1-2 at high rpms takes almost a full second, even with considerable effort, and I am sure to push the clutch all the way in.

Sorry for the long rambling post, just trying to get all the info out there. Thanks for all your help

 

[AutoSHO]

Crap. I did exactly the same as you except I used the Rally instead of TZ. I noticed the same thing. I refilled using regular ATF as well. I havent done much High RPM shifting yet, but the one time I tried, it wasn't happy. I noticed the same thing, no grinding at all. Grrrrrrr... If it turns out to be the TOB they're getting a nasty note from me.

 

[MOSHO92]

Strange how similar our symptoms are. I would like to understand what, on the TOB, can go bad and cause hard shifting. It seems to me like the only things that can go bad on the TOB are the bearings, which would cause it to bind and wear the PP fingers. This would eventually lead to PP failure to release...but after only 3000 miles I dont understand what the TOB could be doing to cause hard shifting. Unless it was a faultly design and is to short or something...

 

[AutoSHO]

I was just thinking exactly the same thing. I'm pretty sure the clutch is fully decoupling in mine, since I can sit infinitely without any grinding into reverse. Its like whatever fluid I used is too slippery for the snychros, works great for keeping the tranny spinning (after clutch disengagement it is hard to engage a gear, say first when I'm sitting at a stoplight) but not good for friction. I am going to try a different type of fluid, or mix (maybe some synchromesh). Mine has only been in for about 800 miles, but compared to before, the results are unsatisfactory. I guess we'll see what happens. I'm going to give it a little more time to coat everything and make sure it isn't going to work, and then see about a fluid change or mix.

 

[MOSHO92]

AUTOSHO, that is exactly the way I was thinking of describing my problem. Sounds like we have the exact same problem. It really feels like the fluid is too slippery... Another thing I was thinking is that the friction disk is very heavy and has a lot of rotational inertia, but I dont think the southbend disk is much heavier than the stock one.

Anyone else want to join this thread?

<small>[ December 02, 2003, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: MOSHO92 ]</small>

 

[AutoSHO]

Mine uses a stock disc, so I know thats not the problem. I'm pretty sure that the problem lies in the fluid on mine, I'm gonna wait and see. Hopefully it will loosen up some, if not, I think I'll try some Synthetic ATF or Trick shift/Synchromesh.

 

[MOSHO92]

Isn't synthetic MORE slippery than dino stuff? I would think we need something with a little more grab. I wonder...Can I add Ford friction modifier to GM syncromesh? Or would that blow up in my face?

 

[MaDDaDDaM]

Is this a cable shifter thing as well? Because, I just recently acquired my SHO and shifting gears on it is not like any other car I have driven. Shifting is certainly difficult to say the least and it does take foooooorever! What up with that? And will a rod shifter help? Addam

 

[Bizzy]

Guys, try 2 parts Tick Shift, Redline or Synchromesh with 1 part regular tranny fluid.

Also give this little test a try. When the car is off shift the gears in the same manner as you would with the car running. (No motor sounds are allowed while you're doing this...we're being serious here. ) This will take the clutch engagement/disengagement out of the equation. If it still requires great effort I would look to the synchros or blocking rings. While the tranny is not moving inside, it could indicate burrs or worn spots not allowing them to travel through the motions as they should. It should not take great effort to go from gear to gear.

Also, you can shift the gears without the clutch pedal being depressed while the car is off, see how that feels also. It should be smooth from gear to gear.

You guys would really be surprised at what a difference new blocking rings make, it's like a whole new tranny......

 

[MOSHO92]

In reply to MaDDaDDaM: Both AutoSHO and I have a rod shifter. I have heard that a cable shifter really does take the fun out of shifting, but some people dont seem to mind it. Try doing a search on that, I am sure there is plenty of information on this forum.

Bizzy: I will give that mix a try, and then if that doesnt help, I think I will add some friction modifier. If all else fails, I have been wanting to do a tranny rebiuld anyways...just for the experience. Only thing is I would really like a Quaife if I am going to the trouble of ripping things apart, I just dont feel like paying credit card bills for the rest of my life.

Thanks for the help.

 

[AutoSHO]

The reason I believe it is not my blocking rings/internal problem is that it was working fine pre-clutch job and fluid change. And it is completely disengaging. I am almost positive it is the fluid because if I disengage the clutch sitting still and try to engage in a gear, I have to give it moderate force or try twice before the trans internals stop spinning. I'm pretty sure its the fluid. Never had a single problem before the clutch.