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SHOYourYama

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I thought I got a **** of a deal when I bought the C&L off ebay and had shipped for $115. I had even emailed the "power seller" w/ tons of questions regarding the dyno graphs being so vague.. the say they won't and don't have any more info that which is shown on their website.

The funniest thing was stuck to the bottom of my C&L box. A buisness card: "Stephen Christ, owner of C&C Performance"

Still curious what gains can be made w/ the C&L routed through a LPM.. Can I go to ANY dyno (local to me) and be programed? It might not be worth the HP per dollar if I have to drive across the country. New paper weight? rant
 

GreenBird

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Yamaha V6:
Oh, and Greenbird, I'm so glad you know everything there is to know about this stuff. How about EdJuKatin' the rest of us 1st graders about stuff we've already worked with for years? Oh wait, let me guess, you got one of those eBay transistors inline on your air charge temp senders for "Maximum Power".

Give us a break & lose the condescending attitude. It's been oozing out of your fingertips on way too many threads lately.
If I came off condescending, I'm sorry, I don't mean it that way. Don't read between the lines in my posts, I say exactly what I think. In this case I was trying to dispell the incorrect info and perceptions.

Fred, here are my thoughts on your questions. You would have to reset the EEC just before both runs and clean both MAFs to be sure the results were correct. They would not need to be at the same temp/humidity/altitude, etc. as long as they were both corrected to the same system (STD or SAE). Another good question would be if they were done on the same dyno, as hp results are know to vary by dyno manufactuer.

Just because I'm a newbie to SHOs, doesn't mean I'm a newbie to modding fords. I've also taken a MAF apart, and made a MAF sensor from scratch (in Electronics Class )

One of the most basic rules I've learned (sounds like Fred also goes by this) is "Don't trick the computer, trick out the computer." Using a C&L MAF w/o a car specific dyno tune is tricking the computer. Ford's EECs rely heavily on the MAF, and changing it without a re-calibration in the EEC will almost always cause a loss in power, and usually cause problems later. This is why I support Pro-M and Ford. Ford has quality control and all MAFs (of the same design) will be very close to the same transfer function. Pro-M gives you a flow sheet for your specific MAF, to compensate for any deviations in transfer function.

Here's a question: Why are you guys so loyal the LPMs? While I'm glad to see many of you staying away from StupidChips and Diablow, it seems like (as a collective) you haven't noticed www.fordchip.com or TwEECer (luigisho
did mention it a couple times).
 

GreenBird

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SHOYourYama:
Still curious what gains can be made w/ the C&L routed through a LPM.. Can I go to ANY dyno (local to me) and be programed? It might not be worth the HP per dollar if I have to drive across the country. New paper weight? rant
You can goto any dyno that has a wideband o2 sensor. However, you'll need some way to change your EEC values. Ted could probably burn a custom LPM (chip) from the dyno chart, or you could do it yourself right then with a TwEECer (or something like it).
 

bradman

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This is a good thread. Even in his absence sdpatt keeps the forum going! hail

Thanks to all for your informative posts. thumb
 

Yamaha V6

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Greenbird: Bygones. :)

Anyway, I AM actually speaking with Alberto over at FordChip.com now, though he's also stating he can get my heavily modded S/C'd 91 "close" by mail. I've asked his cost in coming back to Worcester MA this summer (ie, I fly his guy, put him up, etc.), but he's stalling on that approach.

Back to MAF, I am the first to admit when I don't know something (and I think others here will back me up on that). MAF Electronics & EEC Tuning are NOT my strong point by any means, with very little hands-on on my part. My MAF experience is in bolt-on swapping of parts, on the dyno of course (to the tune of I have about 60 runs compiled so far on the V6 SHOs).

As for the DESIGN of the C&L MAF, I actually like it A LOT. The Barrel is repeatable via the CNC machining, it's smoothed out nicely, with great blended radii on the inlet. However, I think the problem with it is as mentioned: the stock electronics pack.

To answer your question about the lack of EEC Tuning customers out there, probably this:

a) cost (as SHOs age, the owner base gets younger, and they have a tighter budget)
b) knowledge (you really have to know what you're doing with the Tuner)
c) volatility of product (frig it up & buh-bye engine)

To me, I've gone the chip-by-mail approach, and it's "ok" at best, lousy for something custom like a blower install (and let's face it, even though it's a kit, it's still more like a one-off setup than a bolt-on like UDPs). So, after hearing about the FordChip dyno day at NEDT in Worcester last month from a SHO guy, I was impressed enough to trust them with my tuning if done hands-on. My other route is to bring the car to the company that sold me the kit to tune it (SHO Shop). Either one's going to cost a mint, but (and this is the clincher boys & girls) IS NECESSARY IN ORDER TO REALIZE THE POWER GAINS & DRIVEABILITY SMOOTHNESS IN THE SHO. This goes for anything, really. Adjust the exhaust flow via an open Y-pipe, and hey, tuning the system after may just gain you even more.

Anyway, back to MAF Tuning, sorry for the stray.

PS: Does ANYONE have the Ford Part Number on the electronics pack for the Ford 80mm that SHO Shop sells? My 80mm pack's cover had been ripped off at the dragstrip a couple of years ago, and I have to tell FordChip the MAF I'm using. Thanks!
 

GreenBird

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Yamaha V6:
PS: Does ANYONE have the Ford Part Number on the electronics pack for the Ford 80mm that SHO Shop sells?
http://www.fivestarford.com/newsite/parts/

Max knows his stuff. the TCCoA alone is respondsible for over one million dollars in sales in 2002 through him.

SLO-SHO: there are two different versions f the ford 80mm MAF. does yours have a center post of not? If fred doesn't match the electronics and housing it could be very ugly for his engine.

<small>[ June 04, 2003, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: GreenBird ]</small>
 

Slo-Sho

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Yes, I wasn't aware of any Ford 80mm w/o the centerpost. Is there a cfm flow difference in the two?
 

GreenBird

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SLO-SHO:
Yes, I wasn't aware of any Ford 80mm w/o the centerpost. Is there a cfm flow difference in the two?
Yes, the transfer function is different, the one without the post flows better (read: less pressure drop over it), and is setup to meter upto 46#/min of air.

edit: fixed typo.

<small>[ June 04, 2003, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: GreenBird ]</small>
 

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