SCT Tuning

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Dubeckyj

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So, I got my Pro Racer Package up and running, and I can't seem to find any good discussions on tuning our engine. I've tried mixing what my dealer provided on his base tune with tricks I've seen on 4.6 mustang forums, and me randomly changing things to see what happens. It's working alright, but I can't shake the feeling that it can be better.

If anybody else does their own tuning, I'd like to compare notes to learn and minimize trial-and-error.
 

SHOZ123

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Have you done any data logging with a laptop and the LiveLink software?
 

Dubeckyj

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Have you done any data logging with a laptop and the LiveLink software?

Not yet. I'm waiting on a new battery for my laptop.

@ My_Silver_SHO;

That's exactly what I've done. I was just a little concerned because he took the max spark table and pasted it into the base table & called it a day (also 0'd anything that further advanced spark).

I'm not going into the fuel tables until I'm logging, but seriously, 11:1 AFR at 7k?
 

Dubeckyj

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Yup.

I'm not talking about bad 02 sensors and seeing an 11:1, I mean it commands 0.757 lambda at 0.700 load and up for 6k rpm, and at 0.400-0.700 load 7k. 0.700+ load at 7k is 0.718, or 10.5 AFR. Seriously, boosted guys run leaner than that.
 

SHOZ123

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Yep .757 is a fact. Change the tables to .820 max. Then there is all the funny stuff that goes on with the modifiers.
 

SHO Dude

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FPS was the 17th dealer to sign up with SCT back in the day.

Dealers can write tunes, but they are sold as Custom Tunes. They are wrapped up in a CEF file that is serialized to your tuner. We can write tunes for you, but they are not sold as MTF files.

The learning curve will be steep for some time.

It's very important to understand the relationships between Borderline Knock tables, MBT tables and Max Timing tables, along with the modifiers for each.
 

Dubeckyj

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What exactly do the normalizers do? The description just says "these numbers do stuff" and it's all very confusing.

And I thought MBT was the minimum timing needed to achieve the maximum amount of torque, but that seems to be that the max timing table's description says. The max timing table goes a little higher than the MBT in some cases.
 

Mr Anonymous

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Normalizers tell the PCM how to "fill in the blanks" on values that fall in-between the specified values.

A dealer can sell you an .MTF file that you can work with, but expect to pay a lot more than you would for a .CEF tune, and don't expect the dealer to give you their "best stuff".

Tuning an N/A car comes down to three basic things. First, making sure the MAF transfer function is as spot-on as possible, so your actual fuel is what you're commanding; second is finding the right fuel map for an optimum power curve; and third is finding the right spark for an optimum torque curve. The rest of the stuff like tranny, etc. is mostly driveability and behavior, although obviously shift points and pressures can influence things like acceleration speed (0-60, 1/4 mile).
 

Dubeckyj

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My dealer gave me a .mtf baseline when I purchased the package, which was the baseline I had him create for me when I first bought my SHO. I went back to him a few times for touch-ups before I bought the software to do it myself. I've driven on the stock programming for about a month, and my starting point is a mix between the two. Take into account he's a mustang guy, and doesn't do a lot of work on SHOs.

I'll have to read up on MAF transfer. I thought that would've been fine if it's the stock MAF, but the fuel and spark tables are sub-optimal, so it wouldn't surprise me.

Isn't the MBT table the best spark for an optimum torque curve?

And I've read different 'optimal power' AFR's around the web, from 13.5-12. Paul, did you find the best power out of .820, or is it a safety thing? Did you start leaner and work your way richer across the rpm band, or do .820 across the board (my tuner's base file had ~0.854 across the board)?

I'd like to get as much info together before I start mucking around, versus pretend I know everything and end up with a crumpled pile of aluminum and iron where my engine used to be. Thanks for the tips guys, keep 'em coming.
 

SHOZ123

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14.7 x .820 = 12.054

That's your target. If you are not hitting it then you need to change the MAF table or some other modifiers. Usually the MAF table especially if you have changed the intake in any matter. Also the Intake Manifold Volume should be changed to eliminate lean or rich tip in.
 

My_Silver_SHO

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FPS was the 17th dealer to sign up with SCT back in the day.

Dealers can write tunes, but they are sold as Custom Tunes. They are wrapped up in a CEF file that is serialized to your tuner. We can write tunes for you, but they are not sold as MTF files.

The learning curve will be steep for some time.

It's very important to understand the relationships between Borderline Knock tables, MBT tables and Max Timing tables, along with the modifiers for each.

I don't even want to try tuning myself. Can you tell us a little more about your tunes? What one can expect? Shift points. Rev limiter. Fan on temp etc.

I just want my SHO to feel more "sporty".
 

Dubeckyj

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14.7 x .820 = 12.054

That's your target. If you are not hitting it then you need to change the MAF table or some other modifiers. Usually the MAF table especially if you have changed the intake in any matter. Also the Intake Manifold Volume should be changed to eliminate lean or rich tip in.

I did modify the intake. I don't have any Intake Manifold Volume setting, which brings up a good question: During your tuning days, was there a better PCM for the V8 than others? I have a YIY1 and it seems extremely limited.

I know how to go back and forth from lambda, I'm just curious how you set your fuel table up. Hence;
Paul, did you find the best power out of .820, or is it a safety thing? Did you start leaner and work your way richer across the rpm band, or do .820 across the board (my tuner's base file had ~0.854 across the board)?
 

SHOZ123

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What year car? I just filled the whole table in with .820 in the higher load areas. .820 is what I used, whatever you feel comfortable with you can set it at.

YIY1 is an obscure code for the '97. You want to get the AWL1. I would try and get SCT to change you code for you.
 
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Dubeckyj

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It's a '97. Can I just flash my existing PCM with the AWL1 program, like they do with tweecer on the G1/2's?

Also, I seem to recall a 227whp dyno from your car. I'd think you'd play around with the AFR to squeeze every last ounce out of it?
 
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Mr Anonymous

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I'll have to read up on MAF transfer. I thought that would've been fine if it's the stock MAF, but the fuel and spark tables are sub-optimal, so it wouldn't surprise me.
You thought wrong. You have to verify that the MAF transfer function is correct. Every single car has variations. The stock transfer function was developed for a stock car with a stock intake tract, and even then was made to account for skewing caused by things like dirty air filters or sensor filaments. So, while it's usually close, there is almost always room for improvement. You want exactly what fuel you're commanding, not "close to".

How do you know the fuel and spark tables are sub-optimal? It doesn't sound like you know enough about tuning to make such a blanket statement.

Isn't the MBT table the best spark for an optimum torque curve?
No, that table just tells the PCM how to calculate torque, it does nothing to control spark.

And I've read different 'optimal power' AFR's around the web, from 13.5-12. Paul, did you find the best power out of .820, or is it a safety thing?
Every car is different. My '99 for example, loves fuel. I get the most power at around 12.1:1. Other cars seem to like anywhere from 12.6:1-13.3:1. Unless and until you put the car on a dyno, you really can't know what any given car will like. Same goes for spark, some motors can tolerate a lot more spark than others.

I'd like to get as much info together before I start mucking around, versus pretend I know everything and end up with a crumpled pile of aluminum and iron where my engine used to be. Thanks for the tips guys, keep 'em coming.
Good idea. There are a lot of good Ford tuning books out there, or you can sign up for classes with a couple different SCT dealers (or maybe even SCT, not sure if they're classes are available to PRP's).

It's a '97. Can I just flash my existing PCM with the AWL1 program, like they do with tweecer on the G1/2's?
Yes, you can flash a AWL1 tune over any '96/'97 calibration.
 

Dubeckyj

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You thought wrong. You have to verify that the MAF transfer function is correct. Every single car has variations. The stock transfer function was developed for a stock car with a stock intake tract, and even then was made to account for skewing caused by things like dirty air filters or sensor filaments. So, while it's usually close, there is almost always room for improvement. You want exactly what fuel you're commanding, not "close to".

How do you know the fuel and spark tables are sub-optimal? It doesn't sound like you know enough about tuning to make such a blanket statement.

I'm still learning. I read a ton about the MAF transfer function, and I'm actually a little excited to calibrate it. I want to swap out my aluminum one with the later plastic design, so I can practice calibrating on this one, and (hopefully) do a better job the second time.

And I'd assume the fuel and spark tables are sub-optimal, because we wouldn't need to tune it if they were optimal. I started this thread because I know next to nothing about tuning, but I thought "tune to make better" was a fairly safe assumption.


No, that table just tells the PCM how to calculate torque, it does nothing to control spark.

I know it doesn't control spark, I just remember reading somewhere that Ford maps out the MBT on an engine dyno to get the best torque with the least timing, and puts it in that table. I read it on the internet, so it can go in the same file as "leprechauns don't like rye bread" if it's incorrect.

I'm not touching MBT or max spark tables, just borderline knock. I think that's the right way to do it...


Every car is different. My '99 for example, loves fuel. I get the most power at around 12.1:1. Other cars seem to like anywhere from 12.6:1-13.3:1. Unless and until you put the car on a dyno, you really can't know what any given car will like. Same goes for spark, some motors can tolerate a lot more spark than others.

I don't want to try and make a end-all tune without testing, but I'm still a little ways off before I take it to the nearest dyno. I'm just trying to figure out a good starting point for our engines, since it's such a rare platform as far as the internet's concerned. I knew engine requirements across different engine styles would be different, but I didn't think out 3.4 V8 would fluctuate that much between cars.


Good idea. There are a lot of good Ford tuning books out there, or you can sign up for classes with a couple different SCT dealers (or maybe even SCT, not sure if they're classes are available to PRP's).

I'm looking at the SCT manual. From what I've read when it came out, it was what they gave to the dealers minus the bits about dealing with customers. I would assume it's recieved a few revisions since then.

Yes, you can flash a AWL1 tune over any '96/'97 calibration.

Hot damn. Maybe I can finally fix my 4th gear lockup with 3.99 gears, since I don't think YIY1 has the setting I need to change.
 

SHOZ123

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I would not swap out to the plastic. It is hard enough to get the one that came with your car dialed in. The tables between the two are completely different and there really is no gain by going to the plastic over the aluminum.
 

Dubeckyj

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I would not swap out to the plastic. It is hard enough to get the one that came with your car dialed in. The tables between the two are completely different and there really is no gain by going to the plastic over the aluminum.

It'll make me feel better. I don't suppose you have a file kicking around with the xfer function? Or remember a PCM code with it? I'm not in a rush for the plastic MAF, though, it's still too cold here to mod.
 

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