Rotating But Not Engaging

[Devin]

I've had my SHO for about a month and so far it hasn't started yet. The car came without the intake and the valve covers attached (they were in the trunk, go figure) so I had to reattach those two. Also, the car did not come with an IRCM or the heater hoses that go to the firewall attached. I bought a replacement IRCM from another SHO owner, but I have not reattached the hoses.

The car does a good job of cranking, but that is about it. Once it almost engaged, but that was the only bit o' life I've squeaked out of it so far. I did a bunch of compression tests. My first round was administrated by my friend and we ranged from 150 in three, 120 in two and 90 in one. I redid the compression test with no spark plugs in and (exact numbers to come) I ranged from about 176 - 138 or so. No really low numbers this time. I then changed all the spark plugs and redid the compression test with all but one spark plug in and my numbers ranged from about 130 to around 160 - 170. Those last numbers are the keepers. I think there was human error in the first set. One interesting note, when I had all the spark plugs in the car seemed to turn over faster, much faster in fact, although that could be because the battery was charged longer on the second round of tests.

Miscellanious info, my tach moves when I turn it over, I can barely smell any gas coming out of the tail pipe, and the old spark plugs smelled like gas, but I haven't tested the new ones. On my 87 Taurus I can hear the fuel pump priming, but on this car I can't. I was told I should so that could be my problem. Supposedly the IRCM controls this so it could be that, or there could be something else not plugged in or functioning. My brother told me to check the voltage to the pump, but I don't know where I can do that.

Sorry for the long read, I appreciate the help.

Devin

<small>[ February 12, 2003, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Devin ]</small>

 

[DougLee25]

Yes, just like I said, get the car running because I figured that one reading was wrong. Anyway... the fuel pump is suppose to prime up for a couple seconds with the key to the on position. You could have a bad IRCM. You could also have no power to the fuel pump, or even a bad fuel pump. Test for power at the fuel pump by finding the power wire and probing it. You could drop the tank and check there as well just to be safe. Did you check for spark? Do those few things and let us know what you find. Also run the codes and see what it outputs. If you've disconnected the battery, then this probably won't lead you to anything.

Doug

 

[betterman]

Like Doug said above I would definately check for spark. If you don't have any make sure that your dis module is grounded properly through the crossover tube. If the crossover tube is not bolted on or if it isn't clean where the bolts contact then you will not get any spark.

 

[Devin]

I'll check some of that tonight. One question, what is the DIS module, and where is the crossover tube? (just in case you hadn't noticed, I'm a newbie).

Devin

<small>[ February 12, 2003, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: Devin ]</small>

 

[RStalveyARFF]

Finally, check to make sure the fuel pump shutoff didn't trip on you!!

 

[betterman]

The dis module is on the front side of the engine (the side with the pullies) its a grey rectangle with one plug on each side. The crossover tube is the part of the intake that the dis is attached to.

 

[Devin]

Here are my compression tests:

Cylinder 1 Cylinder 2 Cylinder 3
W/O W W/O W W/O W
148 120 145 130 176 170
150 125 146 130 165 170
148 140 170

Cylinder 4 Cylinder 5 Cylinder 6
W/O W W/O W W/O W
150 140 146 150 170 145
154 130* 146 150 158 175*
162* 150 148 162 150

W/O means without plug in every cylinder, W means every plug but the cylinder tested was in. * means some sort of human error or a wierd rotation.

 

[Devin]

Got the codes. This is what I have. The last one makes sense!

21: Cooling Temprature sensor out of range or ECT out of range.
23: Throttle Position (TP) sensor signal out of range.
24: Intake Air Charge Temperature (ACT, IAT) sensor or Vane Air Temperature (VAT) sensor out of range
95: Fuel Pump Secondary Circuit Failure

 

[DougLee25]

There ya go! Holla at ya boy wink

Doug

 

[Devin]

Now I just have to figure out what those things mean. Time to do some searchin!

 

[MOSHO92]

You did check the fuel pump cutoff switch like SHO91MTX said, correct? Iv'e had that thing give me a few scares. Also I seem to always have the "secondary circuit failure" code present even though my car starts fine.
I didnt notice if you had already checked for fuel in the rails thought the schrader valve on top.
Those other codes are probably just showing up because the engine is ice cold.

 

[projectSHO89]

It's pretty unlikely that any of those codes have anything to do with your "No Start" condition.

You need to:

1) Verify fuel pressure (get a guage - AutoZone, $40)

and

2) Verify spark. Use a timing light on the #5 plug wire and verify that it flashes at 10 BTDC.

If you do anything else, you're wasting your time (or just guessing).

Steve

 

[Devin]

I'm sure that there is no pressure because I can't hear the fuel pump priming. That's why I thought that the "secondary circuit failure" was right on the money. I'll try swapping out the emergency shutoff switch with my Taurus and see if it starts. Maybe I'll swap the IRCM too...

Happy Valentine's Day everyone! boink

 

[projectSHO89]

Don't just swap parts. Troubleshoot it so you understand what you're doing.

All it costs is about $20 for a decent digital meter at Sears or Sears hardware or Rat Shak.

I posted a diagnostic procedure back in December here: http://www.shoforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=004925#000001

The "secondary circuit failure" MIGHT be correct. You still need to do some detective work to find the problem.

If you want to, we can coach you through the procedure, but to just swap parts and hope to get lucky - heck, anyone can do that!

Steve

 

[bradman]

Devin,
Don't bother swapping out the cut-off switch. There is a button on the top of it. If you are able to push the button down, then you've found your problem, and you've re-set the switch. If the button is already in the down position, you've eliminated a possibility.

 

[Devin]

The detective work paid off, I found the problem with the fuel pump. Originally the car was at the junkyard all in one piece. My friend and I took the two passenger side doors off and the right front fender, but we had to cut wires from the back door to the car to get it out. ****, what did we care? I found out later that we didn't have to cut as many wires as we did, but I didn't care because I didn't own it. Then I bought it and now I'm fixing all the damage we did to it, which included reconnecting the wires that we cut so the FUEL PUMP can function. Just in case anyone didn't know, the circuit for the fuel pump runs underneath the carpet next to the passenger side molding.

The car rotates more agressively now, but I'm going to have to check out the spark plugs and other things to find out why it isn't starting. Just a thought, once in a while during the startup procedure there is a metallic grating sound. By once in a while I think 1 in 10 or 15 rotations is correct.