Rev Matching..??

[beaudeen]

Well when I started this thread, I was curious in that I may have been missing out on something..after reading all the posts, I have been rev matching to a point...I thought it had something to do with shifting without depressing the clutch..some say yes...others no...I don't track so...i'll just keep doin what I've been doin..just thought I might extend the life of my clutch with this technique...my front mount is shot..have a reinforced one to put in when the winter up here finally breaks..lots of little things to do after the long winter...thanks for all the info guys...!!!

 

[beaudeen]

Funny thing is...I have a road race track 2 miles down the road that some of the local SHO guys have been trying to get me out to..all I can see come out of that would be $$$$$ repairs....check it out,,
Shannonville speedway...ontario..Canada..also has a 1/4 mile drag strip...maybe someday...lol

 

[beaudeen]

Check it out..nothing fancy, but ....http://www.shannonville.com
Some of you veteran SHO guys might think I'm missing out on something in the back yard

 

[munkee]

Rev matching is the only proper way to shift a manual transmission. Take a peterbilt with a 10 speed for example. Shifting is simple because all the gears are split by 400 rpm's. So start out in second and rev to 1600 rpms, tap the clutch to release the gear, drop the rpms to 800 an hold it there while you tap the clutch and slide the shifter into 4th gear and ease out on the clutch. (or to 1200 rpm and take 3rd if your loaded down) The whole process takes barely a couple of seconds,should be smooth as butter, and becomes second nature before too long. The key is good throttle control.
It's slightly harder with a car, such as the sho, because each gear has a different rpm split, so you'll have to pay attention to what the proper rpm to engage each gear is based on vehicle speed. If your off by 100 rpms or so when you let out on the clutch you may not even notice it, but something in the drivetrain has to make up that deficit, typically the clutch. Proper shifting will lengthen the life of your clutch.

Clutchless shifting is pretty trick, but your asking for trouble doing it. Most truckdrivers shift that way, and if you hang out at a truck stop, you'll hear em chippin and bangin the gears all day long. It takes someone that knows what they are doing and isn't in a hurry to be able to shift well without the clutch, and the potential to damage your trans is still far greater than shifting with the clutch.

It takes some attention to detail at first to learn the speed matches for each gear, but like I said before, after a while you won't even have to think about it. I'm an assistant drivers trainer at a local trucking company. I don't teach the class, but I take new drivers out over the road for a week or so sometimes to make sure they can apply what they learned in class. I can check their speed at anytime and tell them what rpm to hold and and what gear to put it in when they get lost while shifting, and I dont even have to think about it.

The method RonPorter posted for heal-toeing is excellent, but I don't think you would want to drive your DD around that way, lol. When your coming to a stop, if you put it in neutral to coast to a stop, your using just your brakes to slow you down. There is nothing wrong with downshifting a gear or two to let your engine do some of the work as you come up to a stop. Just let it come down to idle, then shift down one. As long as your foot is off the throttle you aren't burning more gas than you would be in neutral, and your not using your brakes up as fast either. Hope this helps.

 

[yamahaSHO]

The method RonPorter posted for heal-toeing is excellent, but I don't think you would want to drive your DD around that way, lol. When your coming to a stop, if you put it in neutral to coast to a stop, your using just your brakes to slow you down. There is nothing wrong with downshifting a gear or two to let your engine do some of the work as you come up to a stop. Just let it come down to idle, then shift down one. As long as your foot is off the throttle you aren't burning more gas than you would be in neutral, and your not using your brakes up as fast either. Hope this helps.

If you're looking to conserve gas, letting the engine do most of the slowing will conserve the most gas as the computer cuts fuel in engine decel. However, I would rather buy some gas than replace a clutch or suffer some extra wear on the eninge on a daily driver. I do a lot of rev matching and engine decel in this car... Mostly because I'm ready to step on the gas when the light turns green

 

[Geek SHO]

Everyone is talking so much about downshifting, but rev matching is similarly useful while upshifting. Especially now that my clutch is falling apart AGAIN (refuses to disengage above 5k rpm) I've been doing this a lot. When I'm racing, I usually change gears as quick as possible, and let the clutch pick up the difference in revs. But when I'm just driving casually, I let the revs drop to where the next gear will spin at before engaging the clutch. I also enjoy heel-toeing during deceleration, but I don't think rev-matching is one and the same as double clutching or heel toeing.

 

[CademiaX]

So anyone who never tried. go 45 mph throw in neutal. Rev/hold to 4k and right about 39-41 mph 2nd gear should just engage. Thats rev-matching, u r doing the sycro's job.

Oh man, that would **** my awesome gas saving skills

I shift out at this speeds.

1st 10mph
2nd 20mph
3rd 30mph
etc..

 

[jonmon6691]

Oh man, that would **** my awesome gas saving skills

I shift out at this speeds.

1st 10mph
2nd 20mph
3rd 30mph
etc..

can't remember where I read it, but someone said that flooring it up to 2k rpm's then shifting was excellent for gas mileage (horrible for rod bearings?) I don't really buy it, anyone else heard of it?

 

[yamahaSHO]

I think the manual says to shift at 17-27-35-44... Something like that anyway.

 

[kikkinasphalt]

If you downshift when slowing down.....FAIL

If you push the clutch in when coming to a stop....FAIL

Rev-matching is really only used for racing. Yes u can do it on the street but its rarley ever needed.

This all comes naturally as u learn to drive a stick IMO. It all about when everything matches up. So anyone who never tried. go 45 mph throw in neutal. Rev/hold to 4k and right about 39-41 mph 2nd gear should just engage. Thats rev-matching, u r doing the sycro's job.

how is downshifting while slowing down wrong? or a fail? hmmm

i must be a failure.

also, if i push in the clutch when coming to a stop i fail? ah.. i dont understand. is your car jedi? cause if you come to a stop without pushing in the clutch to disengage it the car will die. it cant idle in gear. do you just yank it into neutral and coast to a stop?

i rev match when i drive. ive been programmed to do so. i do it without even thinking about it. its not just for "the track" you can use it anytime you want to have a spirited drive. and honestly. i didnt buy my SHO to shuttle me to work like i was driving mrs dasy.
perhaps the rest of you did.

 

[SASHO91]

I think the manual says to shift at 17-27-35-44... Something like that anyway.

So... 40-70-105-140-160+, is not the right way? Damn! I knew I was doing something wrong.

 

[Shoaz]

how is downshifting while slowing down wrong? or a fail? hmmm

It's not wrong or a fail, but it doesn't serve much purpose and coasting down is a little easier on the equipment. It's also good to have it in gear, though, in case you need throttle quickly to get out of a problem of some kind (e.g., get out of the way of somebody running a stop sign or something).

also, if i push in the clutch when coming to a stop i fail? ah.. i dont understand. is your car jedi? cause if you come to a stop without pushing in the clutch to disengage it the car will die. it cant idle in gear. do you just yank it into neutral and coast to a stop?

When you're coasting down as you reach the speed where the synchros are completely unloaded the tranny will come out of gear with almost no effort. You can find this speed by just applying gentle pressure on the shifter toward neutral as you coast down. When the synchros reach the matched speed and unload, the shifter will move to neutral without using the clutch. This doesn't hurt anything and is an easy way to save a little bit of wear and tear on the clutch and TOB.

FWIW, I do this all the time.

 

[CademiaX]

can't remember where I read it, but someone said that flooring it up to 2k rpm's then shifting was excellent for gas mileage (horrible for rod bearings?) I don't really buy it, anyone else heard of it?

sounds like garbage to me, flooring = spraying more fuel. I love the people that turn off their cars while waiting in line a drive thru's to save gas, when it probably takes more to start it again, and not to mention the wear and tear from stopping and starting the engine so many times.

I think the manual says to shift at 17-27-35-44... Something like that anyway.

Thats about right.

 

[SHOGUN88]

It's not wrong or a fail, but it doesn't serve much purpose and coasting down is a little easier on the equipment. It's also good to have it in gear, though, in case you need throttle quickly to get out of a problem of some kind (e.g., get out of the way of somebody running a stop sign or something).



When you're coasting down as you reach the speed where the synchros are completely unloaded the tranny will come out of gear with almost no effort. You can find this speed by just applying gentle pressure on the shifter toward neutral as you coast down. When the synchros reach the matched speed and unload, the shifter will move to neutral without using the clutch. This doesn't hurt anything and is an easy way to save a little bit of wear and tear on the clutch and TOB.

FWIW, I do this all the time.

I use this technique all the time to throw it in neutral. After a while you know when to do it.

 

[BlackonBlack89]

how is downshifting while slowing down wrong? or a fail? hmmm

i must be a failure.

also, if i push in the clutch when coming to a stop i fail? ah.. i dont understand. is your car jedi? cause if you come to a stop without pushing in the clutch to disengage it the car will die. it cant idle in gear. do you just yank it into neutral and coast to a stop?

i rev match when i drive. ive been programmed to do so. i do it without even thinking about it. its not just for "the track" you can use it anytime you want to have a spirited drive. and honestly. i didnt buy my SHO to shuttle me to work like i was driving mrs dasy.
perhaps the rest of you did.

How long have u been driving manual??? if you downshift to slow down I would not want to be a passenger or ur clutch/engine. Its useless and unnessacary



99% of the time... when I am coming to a stop sign, light goes red, coming to a stop ,slowing down. I am in neutrul. Let the brakes do the work. If your going 50 and shift from 5th, 4th 3rd 2nd then 1st. Then that is total idiotic or fail Basically I only use the clutch to start and upshift. (for dd) The only time I downshift is to pick a gear for power. usually a race....

And another thing i do is if you accelerate in gear, push (or pull) the shifter while u let off the gas pedal. The temporary unloading will allow u to take it out of gear. It will pull out of gear effortlessly. been doing that for ever. all this stuff will make ur clutch/TOB last forever. esp a ford oem unit. my old mans lasted 150k or so on the recalled 9.75 clutch till it was replaced when i got it. (and it was still good)

 

[kikkinasphalt]

How long have u been driving manual??? if you downshift to slow down I would not want to be a passenger or ur clutch/engine. Its useless and unnessacary



99% of the time... when I am coming to a stop sign, light goes red, coming to a stop ,slowing down. I am in neutrul. Let the brakes do the work. If your going 50 and shift from 5th, 4th 3rd 2nd then 1st. Then that is total idiotic or fail Basically I only use the clutch to start and upshift. (for dd) The only time I downshift is to pick a gear for power. usually a race....

And another thing i do is if you accelerate in gear, push (or pull) the shifter while u let off the gas pedal. The temporary unloading will allow u to take it out of gear. It will pull out of gear effortlessly. been doing that for ever. all this stuff will make ur clutch/TOB last forever. esp a ford oem unit. my old mans lasted 150k or so on the recalled 9.75 clutch till it was replaced when i got it. (and it was still good)

How long have i been driving a manual? oh two or three days...
or close to 15 years (im only 30). i drive my car i dont let my car drive me. yes i downshift. normally at 50 im in 4th not 5th unless im on a long straight and no traffic then ill toss it to 5th.

being in 4th ill normally drop to 3rd and then to 2nd. but never to 1st. my transitions are smooth and no one complains when they ride with me.

this might be a shock to you, but i dont care how long my clutch lasts me. i expect to replace them about every 2 years or so. im ******* cars.. i drive them. i dont put-put around like an old fart.


what YOU find useless and unnecessary i find useful and pleasing. i dont want to have to find a gear if the light turns green. i dont want to perfectly time the rpms so i can slip the car out of gear.. that clutch serves a purpose, and i use it for that.


now that im through being a *******, ill let you grandpas bicker about how easy you can drive your cars as to not put any undue stress on your drivetrain.

 

[BlackonBlack89]

ooo please dont get ****** off. Im not callin u out on how u drive. really just helping if u ask me. not helping....maybe just show another "option" to drive a manual. I was taught from my old man thats basically wat he said. save ur clutch, use the brakes. Thats all. makes perfect sense too me.


ooo ill put more stress on the drivetrain than u can imagine soon

 

[kikkinasphalt]

ooo please dont get ****** off. Im not callin u out on how u drive. really just helping if u ask me. not helping....maybe just show another "option" to drive a manual. I was taught from my old man thats basically wat he said. save ur clutch, use the brakes. Thats all. makes perfect sense.


ooo ill put more stress on the drivetrain than u can imagine soon

no worries :wave:

the last thing im worried about saving is my clutch.. in fact i hope thats the part that gives up

 

[dodgebusta]

I was taught from my old man thats basically wat he said. save ur clutch, use the brakes.

Idk I've learned from my father, who did autocross before it was actually called autocross *they called it "go down that der hill as fast as you can wit out losing grip"* But no seriously my dad did a bit of racing in his day, and a ton of driving in Midwest weather. I don't downshift nearly as much in the summer as i do in the winter. Winter in MN/WI + ice + brakes (yes even ABS can do this) = sliding and possibly ditch. In the winter i downshift while going easy into the brakes. I let both help each other out.

As for rev matching, it takes practice, and anybody ever see syncro's in a semi's trans? I have and also seen the synco's in my old neon's transmission, not much difference in size or quality. What am i getting at? You clutch through 18 gears your going to burn out your clutch damn quick. And seeing how the synco's aren't much better than a 4-cyl's transmission, then how can you possibly worry about wearing them out when you get 600k+ out of a semi's transmission's sycno's?

Trust me anybody who has ever driving semi enough knows that rev matching is simple, effective, and sometimes quicker.

my 2 cents worth.

 

[Pro*banshee]

is your car jedi? cause if you come to a stop without pushing in the clutch to disengage it the car will die. it cant idle in gear. do you just yank it into neutral and coast to a stop?

I'm calling ******** here.

My car used to idle all day in 1st-5th, take your pick. It was like I had a slushbox with a torque converter














...Then I replaced my clutch and didn't have to bang out to 7300 just to start the car moving. THAT was a fun time