Rev Matching..??

[beaudeen]

G'day all..just did a search for rev matching..still lost..also did a google search, but looking for something specific to the SHO..can anyone spend a few moments explaining exactly how to do it ...or a link..been driving a stick for over 30 years, but have never shifted without the clutch..thanks ..!!

 

[Kens1992mtxSHO]

Don't do it. It will destroy your synchros over time

 

[beaudeen]

Just curious i guess...not saying i'd practice it if it causes harm to the old girl

 

[Pro*banshee]

I was in a debate with Area91 and 1995SHO about this.

What do they syncronizers do? They match the revs for you so the gear engages easily, the clutch just makes it happen faster.

My friend's dad drove his manual ranger for 174,000 miles on the origonal clutch, he never used it other than starting from a stop, his truck still shifted butter smooth when he sold it; my car also shifts just fine and I clutchless rev match

 

[Kens1992mtxSHO]

I don't recommend it but here you go...

How to Drive a Manual Transmission Vehicle Without Using the Clutch

You should be rev-matching your down shifts anyway, but while using your clutch.

 

[tardboy21]

I do not recommend doing this either as it will wear on the syncros, but to be done correctly it must be done lightly. You can't try to force it. If it is done correctly and just light pressure pushing towards the next gear slot, it will actually feel like the tranny is sucking it into gear. It isn't going to **** you transmission, but if you get in a rush, push something to much, etc, your syncros will go quicker and you will grind your gears more often. I don't know why people make such a big deal out of using the clutch. You can shift just as quickly with it and its added assurance.

 

[hawkeye18]

I like to do clutchless shifting when I can. It's like a challenge to me. I use one finger on the shifter, it it won't come out with the lightest pull with one finger I'm not at the right rev. I'm at the point now where I can reliably get it right the first time.

James, when I drove that green 91 to the convention, I only used the clutch like six times, to start from a light...!

The secret is not only to be at the right RPM for going into the next gear, but to get the load right for coming out of gear. You have to get the load so that the engine is not pulling the car, and the car is not pulling the engine. If you know what I mean.

 

[beaudeen]

Thanks for the info guys...i was just curious..I'm sure opinions vary..I used to shift without the clutch on a 500 kawa h2 i had as a kid..never done it on a car...

 

[shoclown]

All it is , is you shift the transmission into the next gear at the exact correct shaft speed.
1. The synros in your transmission consists of a couple different parts the blocking rings,the syncro hub the syncro slide and some spring loaded dog teeth.
2. the way the syncro assembly works is the hub is splined to the input/output shaft and spins at the same speed it does
3. the Gears are normally mounted on bearings and spin freely ,they do not couple or transfer any power unless engaged.
4. The blocking ring is used as a frictional piece like a brake. normally made from soft metal with a sharp teeth or sand paper eliminte inside that is a conical shape (tapered from a large opening to a smaller at the end)
5. the slide has internal teeth that match the external teeth on the hub and the very corner of the bearing mounted gears.
6. so with the hub splined to the shaft, and the slide sliding back and forth on the hub it is used to connect the hub to the gear selected.
7. when a gear is selected and the hub is pushed toward the gear the blocking ring is sandwiched between the two.
8. the blocking ring has external teeth that match the hub and gear.
9. the blocking ring also has the conical friction surface inside.
10. when a gear is selected the hub is then pushed toward the gear and the blocking ring is sandwich between the hub and gear.
11. the conical friction area is then pushed against the conical surface of the gear creating friction.
12 this friction is used to either speed up the gear or slow the gear down.
13 once the gear is at the same speed as the hub and shaft in which it is splined to the hub slides all the way over.
14. this completes the shift.

When the driver choses to shift without the clutch this can be done without damaging the syncro gear or anyother trans component.
1. the driver simply listens to and feels for the correct speed in which to shift.
2. what they are wanting to do is shift at the point in which the shaft is rotating at the correct speed for the gear selected.
3. once the speed is correct the vehicle will shift as smooth as it would if the clutch was used.

 

[RonPorter]

All BS.

Rev-matching SAVES the synchros. And rev-matching is NOT shifting without the clutch.

Granted, it's not needed as much with synchronized trannies, but it will still save the synchros in the long haul.

It's also referred to as "Heel and Toe" shifting. Basically, the left half of your right foot is on the brake, and between shifts, you shift to neutral, let the clutch up, and blip the throttle with the right half of your right foot. Then shift to your gear. Some folks do it with the ball of the foot on the brake, and blip the throttle with their heel. It works best on a car where the brake pedal and gas pedal are about the same height.

It is still a valuable technique for driving an MTX SHO on the track where you may be downshifting from 3rd or 4th to 1st or 2nd for a corner. On an older tranny, it won't always want to go into gear with worn synchros. I never practiced it enough to get good at it, but i have just done the technique to rev-match in neutral on certain tracks where I would downshift.

 

[itwonder]

You are referring to a technique called "double clutching", intimately familiar to those of use who drove buses and trucks back in the days when none of those vehicles had synchronizers in the transmissions. I drove an American Eagle over the road bus, and it was a blast to shift once I mastered the technique. I also drove a GM bus whose transmission had a mind of it's own and frustrated every driver I knew. This was in the early seventies.

It is not heel and toe, or perhaps I should say more verbosely that there is more to heel and toe than just getting a smooth shift by matching revs. The point of heel and toe is to tie into the handling by managing the load placed on the drivetrain during the downshift. That can vary from none to breaking the wheels loose as needed. It is often used to initiate and then manage drift through a turn, quickly alternating between brake and throttle, sometimes both simultaneously, to achieve the desired result.

 

[RonPorter]

You are referring to a technique called "double clutching", intimately familiar to those of use who drove buses and trucks back in the days when none of those vehicles had synchronizers in the transmissions. I drove an American Eagle over the road bus, and it was a blast to shift once I mastered the technique. I also drove a GM bus whose transmission had a mind of it's own and frustrated every driver I knew. This was in the early seventies.

It is not heel and toe. That refers to a technique for managing drift through a turn, quickly alternating between brake and throttle, sometimes both simultaneously, to achieve the desired result.

Heel & Toe "IS" double-clutching, which is rev-matching. That is the entire purpose for doing it.

 

[AREA 91]

All BS.

Rev-matching SAVES the synchros. And rev-matching is NOT shifting without the clutch.

Granted, it's not needed as much with synchronized trannies, but it will still save the synchros in the long haul.

It's also referred to as "Heel and Toe" shifting. Basically, the left half of your right foot is on the brake, and between shifts, you shift to neutral, let the clutch up, and blip the throttle with the right half of your right foot. Then shift to your gear. Some folks do it with the ball of the foot on the brake, and blip the throttle with their heel. It works best on a car where the brake pedal and gas pedal are about the same height.

It is still a valuable technique for driving an MTX SHO on the track where you may be downshifting from 3rd or 4th to 1st or 2nd for a corner. On an older tranny, it won't always want to go into gear with worn synchros. I never practiced it enough to get good at it, but i have just done the technique to rev-match in neutral on certain tracks where I would downshift.

Yeay, someone got it right! Go Ron! You da man!
P.S. I may bring my golf clubs this year. I'm a lefty.

 

[RonPorter]

Yeay, someone got it right! Go Ron! You da man!
P.S. I may bring my golf clubs this year. I'm a lefty.

That's fine. We all pretty much suck as righties, so it shouldn't matter. Important thing is.....can you drink beer??

 

[kikkinasphalt]

all bs.

Rev-matching saves the synchros. And rev-matching is not shifting without the clutch.

Granted, it's not needed as much with synchronized trannies, but it will still save the synchros in the long haul.

It's also referred to as "heel and toe" shifting. Basically, the left half of your right foot is on the brake, and between shifts, you shift to neutral, let the clutch up, and blip the throttle with the right half of your right foot. Then shift to your gear. Some folks do it with the ball of the foot on the brake, and blip the throttle with their heel. It works best on a car where the brake pedal and gas pedal are about the same height.

It is still a valuable technique for driving an mtx sho on the track where you may be downshifting from 3rd or 4th to 1st or 2nd for a corner. On an older tranny, it won't always want to go into gear with worn synchros. I never practiced it enough to get good at it, but i have just done the technique to rev-match in neutral on certain tracks where i would downshift.

winnar

 

[kikkinasphalt]

It is not heel and toe. That refers to a technique for managing drift through a turn, quickly alternating between brake and throttle, sometimes both simultaneously, to achieve the desired result.

negative.


****-toe is as exactly described by Ron. and i do it every day.

(ive spent 130 hours in training classes and all the the instructors referred to heel-toe as the situation ron described.)

 

[Eric VerValin]

I like doing it from time to time... has won me some money a few times... Put your left foot up on the seat.. best way to show your not on the clutch.

 

[shobote]

WIth the scarcity of replacment parts for the MTX, I would not shift without the clutch; heel and toe rev matching for precise downshifts into corners is a blast; with practice you can do it seamlesly smooth without jerking anything too; I learned to drive that way on short tight SCCA Solo II courses; a good way to learn before attempting high speed road courses.

 

[Eric VerValin]

IMO... if you've driven a SHO for over 150,000 miles.. you should know exactally where the RPM's need to be in any gear... and shifting without the clutch shouldn't be that hard at all. My trans had 210,000 on it before the diff bearing went out. Didn't have any issues with the syncro's whatsoever. But I've only done that a few times, its nothing near a 'normal practice'.


That being said tho... the SHO's is harder than say the 96 Cobra was to get in gear like that. To me what the smooth downshifting will do for you, is save your rear mount..

 

[Pro*banshee]

What about when your mounts are solid?