Replace stock speakers

[SHOinVa]

I hear the new Rockford DSR1 integration module

- Thanks for that it kind of changed everything.
- So the plan for now (subject to change) is, I am going to replace the front speakers with Focal Integration ISS 570 component system 5"x7" woofers, and rear deck subs with Audiofrog GS690 and maybe the rear center while its torn apart. Then I will see how it sounds, wait for the DSR1 to come out and move forward from there. I will eventually replace all the speakers but that is what I can afford for now. Most likely I will let Best Buy do the install and I will buy my speakers from Crutchfield. I am probable spending too much money on speakers BUT I have wasted a lot more in my time. WOW That was a long journey and its not over yet, Man you guys where a big help, if we cross paths I owe you a beverage of your choice.
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[Lostneye]

He used that because the front is the least EQ'd channel?

Two full range channels is all I needed for my install as its going through a DSP anyway so he stopped there. I couldn't say with any real knowledge what the other channels do.

 

[Lostneye]

- Thanks for that it kind of changed everything.
- So the plan for now (subject to change) is, I am going to replace the front speakers with Focal Integration ISS 570 component system 5"x7" woofers, and rear deck subs with Audiofrog GS690 and maybe the rear center while its torn apart. Then I will see how it sounds, wait for the DSR1 to come out and move forward from there. I will eventually replace all the speakers but that is what I can afford for now. Most likely I will let Best Buy do the install and I will buy my speakers from Crutchfield. I am probable spending too much money on speakers BUT I have wasted a lot more in my time. WOW That was a long journey and its not over yet, Man you guys where a big help, if we cross paths I owe you a beverage of your choice.
C/

Let us know how you like it. I haven't heard those 6x9s but am a big fan of Frogs in general and heard good things about them.
The DSR1 will require you to amp whatever speakers you decide to run and while I fell it will be a mediocre product it should be totally worth the price. Either find someone with experience with tuning or start reading up and look into REW as it's quite involved but is a huge difference if done right. If you have never heard a properly set up SQ system I suggest you try and find someone to let you have a listen.

 

[SHOinVa]

Greetings All - I have come back to my resident panel of SHO stereo experts for more help - I hope you are still there.
- Speakers kind of took a back seat for a bit but its Christmas so I am spending some money, after yet more drama (that I will spare you), I finally got a Best Buy appointment to install my speakers. I arrived way ahead of schedule and the installers had more bad news for me. This is the first I have heard of this so I wanted to run it by you guys an see what is going on. So here it goes.

- According to the installer I have to use whats called a (8Ohm 100W Non-Inductive Dummy Load Resistor) for each speaker. According to the installer unless I use these, when the system does a self check it will not recognize there is a speaker there and shut down that speaker port. Something about the upgraded speakers dont meet the same specs as the stock speakers so it considers them defective or something. This makes NO SINCE to me at all, first because you guys have never mentioned it and second because this is not even a stereo part it is a test item. The tech was insistent that any time they up graded speakers on the Ford Sony the customer brought it back as defective. These things are $14.25 a piece so its like so for six speakers is like $120. Before you say they are trying to get more money Best Buy does not even sale these.
- So any of you folks know what this guy is talking about, I have a week to figure this out BUT I am just about over this, at some point it just is not worth the trouble. Look forward to any help you can give, hope everyone is having a good Christmas
Charlie/

 

[Lostneye]

I did not believe. Before the DSR1 I was running just the FL/FR outputs fro the Sony amp into the DSP with the only the factory rear door speakers hooked up, the front and rear center, front door, front a pillar tweeter, and rear deck subs all disconnected.

I little update with the DSR1, am I not totally happy with it. Some alternator noise, turn on and turn of pops and the navigation voice/button beeps are painfully loud. The SQ over going through the Sony amp is noticeable though. PAC has an integration solution as well that was not compatible with the Taurus a few months ago but now is. I plan on trying the PAC and seeing how that goes. It doesn't have a DSP like the DSR1 but I am using another DSP anyway.

 

[SHOinVa]

I did not believe

- What did you not believe,
- I have to be honest your post kind of confused me, I have not even gotten to the DSR1 yet, I'm still just trying to get the speakers installed that is all I want to do at this point, with all the issues I had so far an all the people trying to take advantage of me, if I can just get the speakers working I might just call it a day. This system really does not want to be upgraded.
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[Lostneye]

Sorry, this is what happens when I try in fit the SHO Forum in when I should be working.

There are a bunch of guys who have upgraded just the speakers. I do no believe what BB is telling you is true.

My own experience, since I went right to adding a DSP/amp was using just the FL/FR inputs into the DSP and disconnecting everything but the rear door speakers without issue. I then went to the DSR1 and pulled the Sony amp, that was just for general info for anyone out there doesn't really apply in your case.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Newer amps are load sensitive. Particularly to bypassed channels (if you bypass the rear doors, for instance.)

THOSE ARE EXPENSIVE RESISTORS!!!!

The resistors that are used in LED light upgrades for autos will work fine for this, and are pretty cheap.

https://www.amazon.com/KaTur-Resist...1513028345&sr=8-5&keywords=8+ohm+led+resistor

The difference between those suggested by Best Buy and those on Amazon is mainly the heat capacity for the extra 50W of power, which you absolutely will not need on the factory amp.

If your upgraded speakers are the same 4ish ohm load as stock, you are done, no need for resistors. If they are lower than that, then you may want to add resistors as insurance to keep the factory amp cool and controlled. Depending on the actual load from your upgraded speakers, you may want to go to 6 or 4 ohm resistors to get the load back closer to the factory 4ish ohm load.

 

[Lostneye]

Newer amps are load sensitive. Particularly to bypassed channels (if you bypass the rear doors, for instance.)

THOSE ARE EXPENSIVE RESISTORS!!!!

The resistors that are used in LED light upgrades for autos will work fine for this, and are pretty cheap.

https://www.amazon.com/KaTur-Resist...1513028345&sr=8-5&keywords=8+ohm+led+resistor

The difference between those suggested by Best Buy and those on Amazon is mainly the heat capacity for the extra 50W of power, which you absolutely will not need on the factory amp.

If your upgraded speakers are the same 4ish ohm load as stock, you are done, no need for resistors. If they are lower than that, then you may want to add resistors as insurance to keep the factory amp cool and controlled. Depending on the actual load from your upgraded speakers, you may want to go to 6 or 4 ohm resistors to get the load back closer to the factory 4ish ohm load.

But he's not bypassing anything at this point. Why would he need resistors when just replacing speakers? I don't remember what impedance the stock speakers are, I think some are 4ohms and some are 2ohms. Could that be the issue?

 

[SHOinVa]

Sorry, this is what happens when I try in fit the SHO Forum in when I should be working.

- LMAO Happens too me all the time just because I try to type way too fast, No worries I have read enough of your posts to know you usually make since.

There are a bunch of guys who have upgraded just the speakers. I do no believe what BB is telling you is true.

- I tend to agree but he was pretty insistent, this does not make since.

If your upgraded speakers are the same 4ish ohm load as stock, you are done, no need for resistors

- Not entirely sure BUT I did go through this both with a local shop an Cruchfield to make sure they would work properly, BUT That would make since if people are bringing in speakers that are way off spec, I think mine will handle more watts but everything else should be close. I am going to call Crutchfield in the morning.
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[Lostneye]

I would be confident in what Crutchfield tells you. They have been around a long time and their customer service is usually top notch.

 

[SHOinVa]

I then went to the DSR1 and pulled the Sony amp,

This whole thing is confusing to me, Did you use the DSR1 to replace your stock amp or in addition too it, was it plug an play or required rewiring?
Anyway that is in the future, as I said before I just want to get my speakers working, no since in jumping ahead.
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[WhatJustHappened]

The loads are odd numbers. It is close to 4 ohms for the a-pillar, front, and rear doors. The factory subs are weird numbers, 2.3 ohms I think.

You are correct, if you don't bypass a channel and just replace factory speakers with replacements that are the same ohm load, you are done. No need for anything else.

If, particularly on 2013 and later amps, you replace a speaker with one that has a lower ohm loading, then resistors can be added as to bring the load back up as insurance for amp protection.

I don't remember the exact part numbers, but there is a revision in 2013 - I think it is post "AB" revision, on the amp part number, that the amps get a lot more sensitive to ohm loading.

 

[SHOinVa]

- So mine is a 2012 SHO and I am not bypassing anything just a straight speaker replacement it should be plug an play, but the Amazon resistors you showed me are pretty cheap so maybe I will get some just to make the installer happy. - I will still call Crtuchfield I was going to go ahead an order the rear doors anyway.
- My question would then be if they are not needed is there any harm to the system or sound quality in adding them.
Thanks for the help I would be lost without you guys.
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[Lostneye]

This whole thing is confusing to me, Did you use the DSR1 to replace your stock amp or in addition too it, was it plug an play or required rewiring?
Anyway that is in the future, as I said before I just want to get my speakers working, no since in jumping ahead.
C/

I believe the DSR1 works for 2013+ only. PAC has one for 2010-12 I believe and a different part for 2013+.

On 2013+ at least, I'm not sure how the early models work the decks puts out a constant volume signal to the amp and there is s CAN bus signal to tell the amp to get louder or lower if you change the volume on the deck. There is also EQ going on inside the amp. The DSR1 allows you to bypass the amp and remove it entirely. There is a vehicle specific harness to not have to cut wires. You would need to add an amp to power any speakers you plan on keeping.

 

[SilverSH0]

Newer amps are load sensitive. Particularly to bypassed channels (if you bypass the rear doors, for instance.)

THOSE ARE EXPENSIVE RESISTORS!!!!

The resistors that are used in LED light upgrades for autos will work fine for this, and are pretty cheap.

https://www.amazon.com/KaTur-Resist...1513028345&sr=8-5&keywords=8+ohm+led+resistor

The difference between those suggested by Best Buy and those on Amazon is mainly the heat capacity for the extra 50W of power, which you absolutely will not need on the factory amp.

If your upgraded speakers are the same 4ish ohm load as stock, you are done, no need for resistors. If they are lower than that, then you may want to add resistors as insurance to keep the factory amp cool and controlled. Depending on the actual load from your upgraded speakers, you may want to go to 6 or 4 ohm resistors to get the load back closer to the factory 4ish ohm load.

What you're referring to is the minimum impedance an amp can support to maintain stability. This isn't load sensing, this is amp stability before it does bad things internal.

The loads are odd numbers. It is close to 4 ohms for the a-pillar, front, and rear doors. The factory subs are weird numbers, 2.3 ohms I think.

How was that 2.3 ohms measured? Is that simply a resistance measurement across the terminals of the speaker?

It's important to know that speaker IMPEDANCE rating is not the same as their RESISTANCE. If a speaker has a 4 ohm impedance rating, it won't measure 4 ohms when hooked up to a meter. This is because the impedance rating of a speaker is a "summary" of a speakers impedance throughout it's entire operating range. The reality is that a 4 ohm impedance speaker almost never has an impedance of 4 ohms.

 

[SHOinVa]

It's important to know that speaker IMPEDANCE rating is not the same as their RESISTANCE.

LMAO There is the Audio Engineer I always enjoy reading your post even if most of the time I have no idea what you are talking about, LOL You just sound cool.
- OK Do you have any idea what the Best Buy tech is talking about, (No one as mentioned this before, An I mean NO one, The shops I priced with charge you to open the car door) Do I need these resistors for the speakers to work, or is there specs I can check an use speakers that will work, Lastly will the resistors make the new speakers sound like crap.
- So far it seems like the crowd consensus is as long as the speakers are close its not really needed, Thanks in advance SilverSH0
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[Choppa]

I've been reading through this when time permits and it seems I had similar issues when I upgraded my Focus ST Sony System.

I bought 10W 10 Ohm resistors at Radio Shack (Not expensive at all) and wired everything up. The resistors are so you don't fry your stock Sony amplifier, nothing else.

I'll be running the DSR1 in my SHO once I get it for Christmas , so I won't need to worry about this anymore, but for now ...

Here's a couple pics of what I did, not sure if it will help anyone at all, but I hope so.

 

[SHOinVa]

I've been reading through this when time permits

LOL Welcome to the conversation an thanks for the input, YES it has turned into a very long read, I cannot Thank the folks out here enough for all there help, I never though doing some stereo upgrades would turn into pain.

I bought 10W 10 Ohm resistors at Radio Shack

I would not know where to find a Radio Shack these days, not that I ever went there before but it is kind of sad.

The resistors are so you don't fry your stock Sony amplifier, nothing else.

That is not what the tech told me, he was very clear that when the radio booted up and did a self-test it would not recognize the after market speakers and shut down those ports.

I'll be running the DSR1 in my SHO once I get it for Christmas

I may revisit the DSR1 if I ever get the speakers installed, I am not a DIY guy so for me the issue is finding a competent installer, I think next I would like a powered sub.
Have a great day.
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[Choppa]

I would not know where to find a Radio Shack these days, not that I ever went there before but it is kind of sad.

Amazon has them also

That is not what the tech told me, he was very clear that when the radio booted up and did a self-test it would not recognize the after market speakers and shut down those ports.

I call BS on the techs part. The resistors are only so that the stock amp senses a load. A load is required for the card in the amp to read it instead of cycling and searching. Even though I had speakers on all channels except the center, which I deleted, I just added an inline resistor to each circuit so the amp would think a speaker is connected. The reason for this is because I was running the LC7i in between the stock amp and the upgraded amp. Without the resistors the stock amp would think nothing is hooked up because the LC7i won't give a load, thus burning out the amp card.

I wouldn't be saying any of this if it wasn't for the fact that I did all of it in my ST and it worked flawlessly.

C/