Removing oil pan - what to look out for?

[cmichaelo]

I have some serious oil leaks around the oil pan. I'm going to remove it and put new gaskets in and new sealant.

I'm assuming I

- first drain all the oil.
- let the pan and Y-pipe cool off.
- remove Y-pipe and oil sensors.
- finally, remove pan.

What else do I have to do or look out for? Any pitfalls?

And while I'm in there I suppose I should inspect the rod bearings (the car has 130k on it.)

What else can one "easily" inspect with the pan off? Cylinder walls? Cracked pistons? Flywheel?

Any good writeup on this issue?

Thanks in advance.

Michael

 

[Groo]

You also have to remove the starter. And if you wanna look at the rod bearings, you have to take off even more things.

 

[nkb93]

I had a helluva time getting one of the oil pan nuts back on, it's on the driver's side towards the firewall, in the corner where accessibility is very limited. Ended up having to use a coathanger wire with a small magnet on the end to position the nut, then a long skinny screwdriver to spin it a little to get it started. Easy after that. I'm sure others have had better luck, I always tend to make things harder than they should be. Anyway, this could be specific to the 3.2 engine, not sure about yours.

Another thing to watch out for when reinstalling the pan is to not use too much RTV on the mating surfaces. I put way too much on mine the first time. Luckily, I decided to take it apart again after a few hours because I had a sneaking suspicion that I'd overdone it. Sure enough, there were all kinds of RTV 'strings' that had formed in the oil pan from where it oozed out inside. I think it would have clogged the oil pump screen if I'd run it like that.

Nathan

 

[91 Plus]

Make sure to soak your manifold bolts a few different times with pb blaster prior to taking them off. They like to break easy.

 

[cmichaelo]

Thanks all.

Wrt to rod bearings, do I pretty much just follow Helms instructions?

Michael

 

[Rockledge]

Rod Bearing Repacement

Dropping the pan means you are in deep enough to seriously consider changing your rod bearings. I highly recommend it. The parts are cheap, your SHO engine will be much better off because of it, and you will feel a great sense of satisfaction and peace-of-mind. Here are some more resources:

http://www.kurtmetros.com/bearings.html

And here is another step-by step that I copied and saved from sdpatt's post(s) somewhere along the way:

1. Disconnect negative battery terminal.
2. Drain oil, temporarily install new filter.
3. Remove O2 sensors.
4. Remove manifold nuts and cat ****** bolts.
5. Remove Y-pipe.
6. Remove oil level sensor.
7. Remove starter.
8. Remove oil pan bolts and nuts.
9. Remove oil pan (there are interferences).
10. Remove oil pickup tube.
11. Remove windage tray.
12. Remove bearing girdle.

For each cylinder:

13. Loosen the two rod end cap nuts and unscrew a few turns.
14. With the 13mm socket and extension still on the nut, tap on the socket extension with a hammer to separate rod end.
15. Use non-scratching means to slide bearing halves so they can be removed.
16. Lubricate new bearings where they contact the crankshaft journal with assembly **** or lithium grease.
17. Install new bearings with tabs at the indentations in the rod and rod cap.
18. Gently install rod end cap and torque to specs, 1st stage 22-26lb-ft, 2nd 33-37lb-ft.
19. Rotate the crank to position the next two rod ends.

Reinstall each component that was removed in steps 1-12 in the reverse order with the following exceptions:

20. Add new gasket to oil pickup tube.
21. Install new oil pan gasket and silicone. If reusing a good condition old gasket, use PermaTex Ultra Black silicone.
22. Install oil pan, torque 11-17lb-ft.
23. Clean, sand contact points on starter.
24. Use new sealant on oil level sender.
25. Use new donut gasket on exhaust ******.
26. Use Anti-seize on O2 sensors and manifold nuts.
27. Refill new filter with oil and refill crankcase with oil.

Once everything is back together:

28. Unplug DIS and crank until OIL light extinguishes.
29. Reconnect DIS and start engine.
30. Set idle speed programming.

 

[Rockledge]

Make sure to soak your manifold bolts a few different times with pb blaster prior to taking them off. They like to break easy.

The 02 sensors and other exhaust ****** bolts ahould also be hit with Blaster beforehand...

 

[Goulash]

Just to add some insight from my own experiences...

You'd be doing yourself a disservice to not do your rod bearings once you've dropped the pan...it's really quite easy compared to the rest of the job. You can inspect your crank journals while you're there with Plastigage, if you think it looks questionable.

I don't know if it's the same on a MTX, but on an ATX you can pull the exhaust manifolds (yes both, I said it...) with not much trouble, so if you break a stud, save yourself the hassle of drilling and just pull it out and take it to a drill press.

That nut on the oil pan is an absolute *******...I used a 3/8 ratchet, long extension, u-joint, and socket to get it on. Sometimes it goes right on, but most of the time it tries to cross thread. It might not hurt to tap and die your nuts, bolts, and studs just to clean up the threads. The threads are 8mm x 1.25.

Hope this helps!

- Justin

 

[DHMag]

it takes roughly an hour to change the rod bearings. the rest of your labor time...about 4-5 hours(for a first timer), will be spent removing the y-pipe, starter, and oil pan, girdle, and windage tray, and oil pump pickup tube.

RE: oil pump pickup tube--the oil pan set does not include the pickup tube gasket. you can either purchase a separate gasket (i believe the front main bearing set from Fel-Pro includes the gasket) or make your own with gasket material.

 

[ShadetreeSHOguy]

i was wondering, my problem is the person that took my cats off welded the whole damn exhaust together all the way back too where the mufflers are (yes the flex pipe and resonator are welded to the y pipe and to each other. is it 100% necessary to take the y pipe off to change em?

 

[DHMag]

i was wondering, my problem is the person that took my cats off welded the whole damn exhaust together all the way back too where the mufflers are (yes the flex pipe and resonator are welded to the y pipe and to each other. is it 100% necessary to take the y pipe off to change em?

i did rod bearings on a Gen1 with a fully welded exhaust sytem like you described. it was truly a pain in the patoot, but i did get the task completed. the y-pipe was in my way constantly, but i managed. i now have scars on my arm from working on that car.

i really recommend having a ****** installed to enable y-pipe/resonator pipe seperation.

 

[Bizzy]

if you're going thru the trouble of dropping the pan to fix leaks, I'd recomend spending the extra $40 on a set of rod bearings. Even though I have pulled bearing out of 140k mile MTX's that looked fine, whe you're in there it makes sense to do it. onnly adds about 2 more hours on your back.

RCM automotive hasthe best price for RB's that I have seen on ebay at $39.99 a set. You also have to have a good TQ wrench, assembly ****, and safteyglasses (for drippig oil in your eyes)

I have coated my rod bearings going in to my 3.2, as well as coating my shim buckets, all tranny internals, and will be pulling my cams out over the winter to coat them too. (after they are broken in)

If you deciide to dorod bearings I could dry film lubricant coat them them for you for $20. DFL addsa layer of friction reducing material on the bearing that has been shown to dramatically reduce friction and wear, and it is also an oil retaing coating that will mean more oil will stay on the RB's after the engine has been shutoff, meaning more lubrication on startup. Here is the info from the coating manufacturer's website.

"Dry film lubricants, also known as solid film lubricants, provide a lubricating film that reduces friction, inhibits galling and seizing and in some instances can aid in dispersing heat. The appearance is generally a charcoal gray and takes on a sheen upon burnishing. They are slippery and provide an extremely low coefficient of friction.

The two most important components are the binders and lubricating ingredients. Without a good binder the coating will not stay in place and will simply cold flow or buff off in operation. Similar coatings using the same pigments but different binding systems can show a wide variation in load carrying abilities, ranging from 100,000 psi to over 350,000 psi . The pigments determine the actual lubricating potential. PTFE, as an example, is listed as having the lowest coefficient of friction (COE). However, under high speed and load, the COE of PTFE degrades while that of MOS2 (Moly) improves, until it is significantly better than PTFE. Selecting the proper ingredients can make or break a coating.

One of the obvious reasons for using a lubricating coating is to reduce friction, which improves wear, extends part life and frees up H.P. normally lost to friction. A second major benefit is a reduction in part temperature. This is especially important to such parts as valve springs. Here the pigment choice is critical as certain ingredients can trap heat in a part. Not all coatings are created equal."

 

[Rockledge]

Bruce, does this coating affect the "thickness" of the bearings (and hence affect clearances)? How is it applied?

 

[cmichaelo]

Thanks all for your great advice. I have to admit I was tempted to NOT do the rod bearings. OK, ok, shoot me... But now I'll do it, thanks to your persistant pouncing...

Damn it I wanna get this car on the road again. It's been in my garage for 4 months now and I've been too busy to work on it. So now it'll be ready for winter....

One more thing I'd like your opinion on.

When I pulled my sparkplugs out a few weeks ago, there were clear signs of oil in cylinder 2. I'm suspecting worn rings since I see a cloud of smoke in the rear mirrow when I floor the car. I suppose it could also be worn valve guides, but I don't get the blue puff of smoke when I first start the car. So probably rings.

Anyway, what's the easiest way to inspect the pistons and rings and possibly even replacing the pistons? Would I need to remove the crankshaft for this? Any good instructions on this procedure, short of Helms?

Michael

 

[Bizzy]

Bruce, does this coating affect the "thickness" of the bearings (and hence affect clearances)? How is it applied?

WHAT ABOUT CLEARANCES?

* The dry film lubricants will burnish as they run until they are no longer visible. They are applied at thicknesses ranging from .0005" to .0015". However, before assembly the coating may be burnished back to less than .0002" with gentle buffing using "Scotch-bright" or similar material.NO CHANGES need to be made in clearances due to the use of these coatings, though in many instances because of the reduced part temperature and increased lubrication tighter clearances may be run.

As quoted from thier website

Those kind of numbers will have no impact on the tightness of the rod bearings, in fact Original Ford bearings were slifhtly tighter than Clevites, so if there was any tightening of the tolerances it would be a positive not a negative. I talked to one of the company's tech support ppl and they said that most instances bearings are installed without the "burnishing" steps unless in ultra tight built engines, The coating burnishes down under use where the wear would occur.

FWIW I coated my SHIM buckets and they fit in without any cleanup on the coating. pics are here http://tinyurl.com/6e8yv if you go up a step you can see my tranny internals coated. I'd also offer RB coating to any sho member for $20 plus shipping, and will donate $2 to the SHO forum.

Second part of the question cause I missed it.... The coatings are applied by hand with a Badger-350 airbrush. This allows great contron and coverage without alot of product waste. Then the DFl has to be baked in an oven at 300F for 60 min. The ceramic coatings I'll be using on my manifolds, cooling system, and y-pipe do not need to be baked at high temps, only 150F for about an hour to make sure all the solvents and water are cooked out.

Thanks all for your great advice. I have to admit I was tempted to NOT do the rod bearings. OK, ok, shoot me... But now I'll do it, thanks to your persistant pouncing...

Damn it I wanna get this car on the road again. It's been in my garage for 4 months now and I've been too busy to work on it. So now it'll be ready for winter....

One more thing I'd like your opinion on.

When I pulled my sparkplugs out a few weeks ago, there were clear signs of oil in cylinder 2. I'm suspecting worn rings since I see a cloud of smoke in the rear mirrow when I floor the car. I suppose it could also be worn valve guides, but I don't get the blue puff of smoke when I first start the car. So probably rings.

Anyway, what's the easiest way to inspect the pistons and rings and possibly even replacing the pistons? Would I need to remove the crankshaft for this? Any good instructions on this procedure, short of Helms?

Michael

Its not worn valve guides, but possibly worn valve stem seals. Cheap in parts to replace ($20-25) but very labor intensive. Involves removing cams, buckets, using compressed air to hold the valves up, have all the tools to remove and install, and then replacing 24 little tiny seals. Put it all back together and re do the valve lash. FWIW unless you have real problems with buring a litttle oil via that you shouldn't worry about it till you add better cams or have the engine out of the car. Valve seals is definately not an easy job with the engine in the car and could take 8+ hours to finish if you go slow. I think Jason Z did his in 8-9 hours. I did mine if 3 hours but my engine is on the stand.

If you want to add cams and or do seals down the line let me know I have tall the tools and I have really really reasonable labor rates But my suggestion is to not worry about it till you get the itch to put a 3.2 engine in there, which by the way is pretty affordable as I'm finding out.

 

[cmichaelo]

Bruce,

Yes I am planning on installing +20 cams next year. So I'll replace all that guides, seals and lash stuff while doing that.

I'll think about your offer to "help" out... I think it may also make sense to have the cams coated.

In the mean time I wanna take a look at my pistons and rings. Is that any easier?

Michael

 

[Bizzy]

To look at your pistons and rings the ead haave to come off. You can get a feel for how clean your engine has beenn runnning by the way things look from underneath when doing the rodbearings. Grab a flashlight and have a look.

FWIW - If you want to really check the pistons and rings, find yourself a nice 3.2 block, pull it apart, have it all cleaned up, rehoned, and put new rings in. p&P the heads, replace seals, and then put the heads on the block. If your thinking of cams and thinking about looking at the rings annd pistons, it's prolly easier to build up a 3.2 to drop in. Plus building a motor if fun.

 

[cmichaelo]

Bruce,

How can I see the rings if I take the head off?

Isn't the only way to see the rings by pulling the piston out? And isnt' it easiest to pull the piston out from the crankshaft end?

Michael

 

[Bizzy]

Bruce,

How can I see the rings if I take the head off?

Isn't the only way to see the rings by pulling the piston out? And isnt' it easiest to pull the piston out from the crankshaft end?

Michael

the only way to see the rings is to pull the piston out. While it may be possible to pull them out the bottom I think you'd have to remove the crank to do so. Thats why pistons usually go in and come out up via the the top of the block

 

[cmichaelo]

ok, so now i've got the first rod cap off...

bottom bearing is in good shape, but top bearing shows at least 75% copper...

guess, i got there just in time, huh???

btw, did any of you check the spacing between bearings and the journal? i see these references to plastigage on Metros's homepage...but nowhere, not even in the Helms manual, is it mentioned to check for the spacing...so can I safely skip this step?

michael