Recurring Rear Cam Seal Leak (long)

[seraphiem]

I posted a thread before about a leaking rear cam seal and thought I had fixed the problem. I replaced the non-leaking (actually it was leaking but a small amount) rear cam seal during the front 60k as a gesture of good measure.

Since then it has leaked, massively. Sunday I pulled the new seal out and discovered it was crumpled and totally ineffective as a seal. Replaced it with a National 1213N and the first 10 ~ 15 miles of driving produced no leaks from that seal. A longer drive of about 30 miles illustrated that the rear cam seal is now leaking again. Sure enough, the bottom of the CID housing is covered in fresh motor oil. Luckily it seems a slower leak then before. Only time will tell though.

While talking to others older, and wiser, I've been told this isn't totally uncommon. From what I understand the rubber in old seals hardens up and can cut grooves in the camshaft (or crank or any sealing surface). I'm 99% sure I did not gouge up the cam-shaft during both removals and replacement of that seal. I was pretty careful during the removal of the original seal and super careful during the removal of the newer seal.

I've been told to wait a while before ripping the thing apart again. Apparently the new seal may gradually conform to the camshaft after some time period. It doesn't sound quite right to me, but I've heard it from several people, all older and much more experienced in these things than myself. What does anyone else think?

If this doesn't work (my luck won't) I will purchase a repair sleeve for the camshaft. Anyone have experience with using a sleeve on the rear camshaft? Last thing I want to do is buy a sleeve and find out it won't work because of the enclosure, or screw up installing the sleeve (really really screwed a that point).

Thanks Again All

 

[K-Dawg]

If it were me, I wouldn't be totally convinced that there is a gouge on the cam, as it is very hard to see and access the rear cam seal. Its possible that you just haven't gotten the seals installed correctly.

 

[LOUDSHO92]

No you need a cam seal installer. Yeah you would think its an easy thing to do. In the mean time what you should do is remove that particular cam bearing and put in the seal tighten down the bearing and try it that way. Also what some of the leaking is coming from is from the 2 small holes where the bearing clamps down. It might help to put some gasket in the ends to seal it off. That is the best I can recomend without the installer.

 

[seraphiem]

I apologize for being obsessive about this problem.

A few questions.

#1 Is it possible to damage whatever may reside behind the seal and cause a subsequent leak?

To pull the old seal out my brother and I used an awl (a craftsman punch that we have about a dozen of) and gouged it into the seal with a crow-bar. It took some initial force and the punch tip did go into the seal some. It caught us off gaurd as he was applying the force the seal just gave way. But nothing I was really worried about. The sheet rock screw used to rip out the seal went in much farther then the punch. And looking at the specialized seal removal tool thats others have used, it becomes apparent there is a decent margin of error.

#2 Does the seal have to be pressed fully into the enclosure, or just far to allow the CID housing to bolt up?

During both seal installations we pushed the seal in as far as it would go. This time we used the CID housing to make sure the seal was pressed fully in, and then used the PVC and ratchet trick to drive it home. Maybe this is a problem as well. I don't know, hence why I am asking.

#3 What is the correct orientation of the National/BCA 1213N seal?

Pretty dumb question but I'm looking for any reason why this is still leaking. It was installed with the metal face pointing out. Correct?

#4 What does a seal installation tool offer?

I know for a fact the seal we just put in was installed as best as I know. Its actually not terribly difficult to remove the old seal and install a new one. But if the tool is almost idiot proof I would purchase it just to make sure I can't really screw up.

#5 How quickly will a gouged shaft eat up a seal?

The leak started pretty early. I'm guessing with as little as 5 miles on this 2nd brand new seal till it started to seep out again. After 30 or so miles it became quite visible.

At this point I'm pretty tempted to just RTV everything around that seal.

Thanks Again All

 

[E.Buzz]

Don't just RTV everything. I tried that and royally messed everything up. RTV is **** to clean up.It's best used as a supplement to a seal, but should never be used as a substitute. As for #5, a gouged shaft will eat up a seal very quickly, depending on how badly gouged the cam is. I've got no idea, on the rest of it, though. :sh: