Real Turbo SHO

[Toolman]

also. It was just a project. We didn't research the turbo size...etc....because we just happened to have a turbo/intercooler/other stuff....lying around. We only spent about 100$ all together, with the people we know and since we do own our own shop and all. So I mean what can I say. Yeah yours might be fast...but how much money did you put into it that we didn't have to.

And that is great. I was not trying to take anything at all away from it. I was simply pointing out that before people give you their hard-earned money to build them a turbo SHO, it might be in their best interest to do some research to be sure they are spending their money wisely. I am in no way trying to compare my car to anyone elses.

yeah it just makes me mad... because i didn't come on here to say that mine was faster or anything. I do appreciate the help... but I am not willing to put all this money and things into it, when it already runs fine. I just wanted to show you what we had done. That is all.

And it seems everyone is quite congratulatory in that respect, as was I. When it seems everyone goes the nitrous or S/C route, I find it very exciting to see a turbo project, especially one that actually runs.

But everyone thinks the have the answers, and we already know what is going on.

And seeing as how you have a running turbo SHO, you are way ahead of many people. But these comments:

Most turbo sho's have the smaller intercooler that fits into the fenderwell. Also I would recommend the FMU's and The injector upgrades (to prevent detonation).... and fuel pumps and stuff.

clearly showed that there are some issues that you will want to research down the road, hence I offered some of my experiences.


So, when I see someone who may still have a learning curve ahead of them, it makes me wary when they post this:

If you can bring the car to us, we can turbo it for you.

If I wanted to, I could very easily copy my piping, get a turbo/BOV/WG set together, and sell a ton of units. And even install them for people. But it is not a plug and play issue. The stock MAF and injectors are only good for about 300 crank hp (if that). An FMU is a poor bandaid for proper tuning, and a stock comp 3.0 will not last long under boost without a careful eye on your tuning parameters.

As I have always maintained, and always will, reliable speed costs money.

 

[Yamaha V6]

I recommend going with Accel injectors instead. Worked incredibly on my boosted 91 (I had 48lb-ers, but they also sell 30's, 36's). Spray was much better, allowing more complete combustion.

 

[Toolman]

Agreed. I need to ditch these 47 Fords quick.

 

[K-Dawg]

I never saw this question answered:

What's the reason for the custom intake crossover tube?

 

[Whiner]

Clean up the engine bay, throw some slicers on there and your good! j/k Nice job.

 

[SeanMc]

You know, digging in the back of my head, I think I recall seeing this car a couple years ago. Has it been around for a while?

 

[NCTaurusSHO]

no.. it hasn't really been around. We bought the body from a buddy of ours for 50 bucks... it has only been in NC. Then just swapped the engine from a 91 into it. For the question about the cutom intake pipe.... the more air the more power right? The hole inside the stock one is only about the size of a $.50 piece. In the intake manifold itself there is about a 2in. hole. So we tried to match it.

Plus.. I didn't come on here (once again) to sell this kit. We all know the stock SHO's won't run with the SRT 4's, the 350Z's, F-body cars, or even the honda v-tec's that are coming out today. So my hundred dollar kit was the best bang for the buck. We just want to keep one step ahead of the new technology. I do appreciate the help. (thanks tim) We all know different things about the sho, that I am sure others don't know. So the help IS welcome. Thanks for taking a look at what we have done.

 

[K-Dawg]

For the question about the cutom intake pipe.... the more air the more power right? The hole inside the stock one is only about the size of a $.50 piece. In the intake manifold itself there is about a 2in. hole. So we tried to match it.

Do you think there's much flow through that pipe?

 

[NCTaurusSHO]

We had results with it, especially on the top end of things. Instead of doing 100 in 3rd gear, it now does 110 at the rev limiter. It worked for us. More air the better.

 

[ManySHOs]

We had results with it, especially on the top end of things. Instead of doing 100 in 3rd gear, it now does 110 at the rev limiter. It worked for us. More air the better.

Was this finding before or after the turbo?

Have you ever seen the orginal Yamaha intake patents? They're very interesting. It seems that the manifold was orginally designed with throttle plates that blocked airflow to the crossover tube and then opened up at different rpms. This never made it into production but I've wonder what gains could be realized by modifying the cross over tube.

I'm not well educated on physics (well, I guess I was; I just never paid too much attention in classes) but I wonder what purpose the crossover tube serves. I've suspected that it serves as a sort of pulse dampener but I really don't know.

Congrats on the turbo setup. I think that its cool that you managed to get it done for so little money and quite a bit of elbow grease and ingenuity. I hope that for your engine's sake that you get a wideband O2 on there just to make sure you don't lean it out too much and ruin your day.

Check out http://www.forced-air.com/ for some decent WB pricing. I purchased the PLX 250 which I think is a great package.

Ian

 

[SeanMc]

I give you props for this

 

[Yamaha V6]

Ian, it strikes me as an airflow-balancer / equalizer. I find it very hard to believe that enlarging something AFTER the intake ports yielded a 10mph gain at the same rpm as described, as SHO vs SHO vs SHO will all hit the same mph at the limiter given the same tire sizes, gearing, etc. - they may not get to the limiter at the same time is all.

Replacing the plugs with Motorcraft 22C plugs & the Accel injectors increased the numbers 14 lb-ft & 50.3hp on mine; most importantly, the driveability was noticeably improved as well.

 

[K-Dawg]

Instead of doing 100 in 3rd gear, it now does 110 at the rev limiter. It worked for us. More air the better.

So changing the crossover tube effectively changed the gearing?

 

[Lupo]

We had results with it, especially on the top end of things. Instead of doing 100 in 3rd gear, it now does 110 at the rev limiter. It worked for us. More air the better.

I didn't think 3rd gear was drag limited, unless something is really wrong with the car.

 

[SinisterSHO]

yeah it just makes me mad... because i didn't come on here to say that mine was faster or anything. I do appreciate the help... but I am not willing to put all this money and things into it, when it already runs fine. I just wanted to show you what we had done. That is all. But everyone is Bigger turbo this, better setup that. I didn't really want to build turbos for everyone. Just saying that We would if they came here. I mean we have no problems with the setup or anything. Yeah we haven't run it on the track or dyno'd it, but we beat everyone. It is just something different. So if he was just trying to help... yeah i appologize. But everyone thinks the have the answers, and we already know what is going on. When we take it to the track, we will put up the results. Thanks everyone for looking at our turbo sho.

Its great that your doing this. But people are in the game of going fast, and big horsepower. Thats why everyone is saying bigger this and bigger that, and quaife this, and cool that. Your car may be faster than those srt-4's, and the new Honda things and stuff. But, Toolmans car is just as fast as those Corvette Z06's, and 03 Cobra's. Yes, yours runs, but 8psi is not satisfying to everyone. Beating new sport compacts is one thing, beating high horsepower sports cars is the goal

 

[ManySHOs]

Its great that your doing this. But people are in the game of going fast, and big horsepower. Thats why everyone is saying bigger this and bigger that, and quaife this, and cool that. Your car may be faster than those srt-4's, and the new Honda things and stuff. But, Toolmans car is just as fast as those Corvette Z06's, and 03 Cobra's. Yes, yours runs, but 8psi is not satisfying to everyone. Beating new sport compacts is one thing, beating high horsepower sports cars is the goal

It's a shame that this mentality exists too. 6 psi on an SHO is quite a bit. My friend's former FPS SC'ed 90 (S trim, stage 1 cams, stock bottom end 3.0) was quite fast. He also smoked plenty of high dollar go-fast cars (vettes, SC'ed stangs, Cobras, etc). If I were to go FI, I'd probably keep the boost around 6-8 psi and be done with it (as long as I can keep the turbine near the TB) . It was enough to get rubber in 3rd gear and make 1st useless. On a FWD car like the SHO, that would probably be enough for me.

Sinister-your sig pic looks awesome. I'm going to add it to my collection. PM me if you have a higher rez shot you wouldn't mind emailing me.

Ian

 

[SHOMurph]

It's a shame that this mentality exists too. 6 psi on an SHO is quite a bit. My friend's former FPS SC'ed 90 (S trim, stage 1 cams, stock bottom end 3.0) was quite fast. He also smoked plenty of high dollar go-fast cars (vettes, SC'ed stangs, Cobras, etc). If I were to go FI, I'd probably keep the boost around 6-8 psi and be done with it (as long as I can keep the turbine near the TB) . It was enough to get rubber in 3rd gear and make 1st useless. On a FWD car like the SHO, that would probably be enough for me.

Sinister-your sig pic looks awesome. I'm going to add it to my collection. PM me if you have a higher rez shot you wouldn't mind emailing me.

Ian

I've yet to see someone who goes with boost keep it around 9lbs without at least trying to go up.

Boost is like taking a handful of popcorn....once you taste it you want more.

(wow I can't believe I kept that last statement clean. )

 

[SHO_Diehard]

I like ManySHOs line of thinking for a slightly different reason. 8 psi of intercooled boost for a few hundred dollars is quite an accomplishment. Tuned properly, that car would probably put out 290-310 HP, which would probaly make it faster than most modded NA SHOs out there. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would be happy with that setup for even $1000-1500.

It's too bad this thread took the turn it did. Trying to be objective about it, I don't think it was anyone's fault in particular. Just proves again how imperfect the internet can be as a means of communication.

 

[ManySHOs]

I like ManySHOs line of thinking for a slightly different reason. 8 psi of intercooled boost for a few hundred dollars is quite an accomplishment. Tuned properly, that car would probably put out 290-310 HP, which would probaly make it faster than most modded NA SHOs out there. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would be happy with that setup for even $1000-1500.

It's too bad this thread took the turn it did. Trying to be objective about it, I don't think it was anyone's fault in particular. Just proves again how imperfect the internet can be as a means of communication.

That particular car (FPS blower @ 6 lbs) put down 308 whp on a Mustang Dyno. What's that, close to 350hp at the crank? He had it tuned at a shop later on and pulled quite a bit more power out of it (using an Apexi S'AFC and LPM-this was pre TwEECer days). He always told me to stop the bolt on stuff and just get a blower. Of course I ignored him and have a full BOS 3.2 w/ cams. Of course I want a blower now that I said I'd never get one.

(Man I miss that car. It ended up in California and somehow Dr. Evil ended up with the blower and sold it. I don't know what happened to the rest of the car. Part of me isn't sure that I want to know either..)

Before I lose sight of why I'm writing this post; I feel that 6-8 psi on a SHO really makes a huge difference. A lot of people want to go "all out" and that's fine. But a lot of those people have never had the opportunity to sit in (let alone) drive a boosted SHO. A little boost goes a long way on these motors. We all know how hard a SHO pulls up top. Imagine making full boost at 4000 when the secondaries open. It's like being pushed downhill by a runaway freight train.

Of course we are all enthusiasts so that means we are not easily satisfied either. 6 psi today, 9 psi next week, 20 psi next month, SHOboom, new 3.3 low compression motor, 1 million psi...you know how it goes...

I think NCTaurusSHO's turbo car is cool (and I think everyone else here does as well. Unfortunately it can be difficult to give advice or ask questions online without coming off as pompous. I don't think anyone meant anything negative so far).

I will never boost my daily driver. However, I was considering getting a T- trim for the SHO when I get another car. I always wanted a turbo but decided that it was too complicated. Now I'm back on the fence. So, keep the turbo creations coming everyone. It's exciting to see cars like this.

That was a long post.

Ian

 

[SHOMurph]

Before I lose sight of why I'm writing this post; I feel that 6-8 psi on a SHO really makes a huge difference. A lot of people want to go "all out" and that's fine. But a lot of those people have never had the opportunity to sit in (let alone) drive a boosted SHO. A little boost goes a long way on these motors. We all know how hard a SHO pulls up top. Imagine making full boost at 4000 when the secondaries open. It's like being pushed downhill by a runaway freight train.

I will never boost my daily driver. However, I was considering getting a T- trim for the SHO when I get another car. I always wanted a turbo but decided that it was too complicated. Now I'm back on the fence. So, keep the turbo creations coming everyone. It's exciting to see cars like this.

That was a long post.

Ian

My daily driver has a 75 shot Zex kit and I have a blast with it. Its no where near as exciting as a SC/turbo car but still mucho fun without having to worry about tuning or needing a stronger clutch. I see people paying big bucks for BBB and honing out the intake etc. You can find a used Zex kit for $230-350 then add a bigger fuel pump and plugs. I was out $500 for my kit, pump, plugs. Its the biggest bang for the buck.

220hp plus 75shot = 295 or so hp.