Project SHOpel. The beginning

[BlackonBlack89]

Well last sunday we took the engine/tranny out of the opel. It was actually alot eaiser than I thought it was going to be. Almost 40 years old and only i bolt stipped!!! That made things easier had the engine out in 4 hours with a lunch break.
Couple pics from that



Well anywho I picked up an RWD SHO engine/tranny combo and today we separted it. And then did a VERY rough test fitment of the engine. It is super tight and never got it fully down where I wanted. The cross member and the oil pan is a known problem hence the dry sump thread. Still looking into that myself. But the width of the engine is close but will make it. Height is still a problem though.

Here some pics of the day.
First getting it in. moving some stuff out of the way.


Actually the engine has to sit alot closer to the firewall. The old heater box is going out and then the trans tunnel has to be modifed along with tons of other stuff.


custom hugger headers needed


reason why a custom oil pan is needed or dry sump setup.


Thats all. Hopefully it will fit. I don't know though. Alot of work will be needed. Right now I am being optimistic but its hard when it's so close.

 

[Phoenix]

wow

Once the headers are made , you'll be able to drop it more.

 

[luigisho]

That will be a badass car if you pull this off. Any idea how much shorter the oil pan has to be? Is that pan on the frame or hovering over it? I'm sure a custom pan could be fabricated depending on how much has to come off to fit.

 

[1995SHO9]

That is awesome Justin. Please keep up informed of how the project is moving along.

 

[RAYJAY]

are you running a atx or a mtx assy belt drive system? if you use a atx one belt system you will save some room

Jeff

 

[BlackonBlack89]

wow

Once the headers are made , you'll be able to drop it more.

Well width wise yes it would be. The oil pan is the problem now. The lowest we got it was about 3-4 inches away from the crossmember. and it it still to high. That and the brake booster/MC is being moved. But I got that about 50% figured out. Alot of kit car use remote booster/MC so I got some good ideas.

That will be a badass car if you pull this off. Any idea how much shorter the oil pan has to be? Is that pan on the frame or hovering over it? I'm sure a custom pan could be fabricated depending on how much has to come off to fit.

It has to be like the shallow part of the pan. Maybe a little higher up. I am searching around and looking at my options. Custom oil pan and I am also looking into a dry sump setup.

are you running a atx or a mtx assy belt drive system? if you use a atx one belt system you will save some room

Jeff

Good idea . Its a 3.0 liter so yes MTX belt assembly. I never even looked at an ATX assembly before. Actually the PS pump/bracket is off and the ac bracket is coming off. That actually save some width there. No Power steering FTW in this case.

 

[1993MTXSHO]

So you're the one that got that combo off ebay that I forgot to bid on. Looks fun though, and if you cant figure out the height problem, wide Cowl hood FTW

 

[luigisho]

It has to be like the shallow part of the pan. Maybe a little higher up. I am searching around and looking at my options. Custom oil pan and I am also looking into a dry sump setup.

With that much volume missing you will most likely have to go with a dry sump set up. I can't see how you could hold the proper amount of oil with a pan that shallow. Those systems are a little $$$$.

Got room to trim the inner fenders and get some extra width for exhaust? I need to stop watching chop-cut-rebuild.

 

[BlackonBlack89]

Very little. Actually those inner fenders are actually the pinch welds for the unidody. They can trimmed a little and then reinforced. Likely have to becasue of engine movement when/if it gets there.


Yes dry sumpa equals some dough but solves more than 1 problem. I am looking for some engine shops that are familar with this setup. As I am not

 

[1993MTXSHO]

Very little. Actually those inner fenders are actually the pinch welds for the unidody. They can trimmed a little and then reinforced. Likely have to becasue of engine movement when/if it gets there.


Yes dry sumpa equals some dough but solves more than 1 problem. I am looking for some engine shops that are familar with this setup. As I am not

I'v been looking into dry sump recently for my 93 actually and running an acusump as well, I believe rod bearings will last extremely long with a setup like that, not to mention the HP gains that can be had from it.

 

[JEM]

I have no suggestions for the tech issues involved, but 1900s and Mantas are cool and I hope this works out.

I have to say that, oh, something like a GM pushrod 3.4 would probably have been a lot (excuse me, a LOT) easier...

 

[NovaSS]

COOL !!!!! I have a opel GT shell in the back of the garage , I think the sho would look great in that too.

 

[BlackonBlack89]

I have no suggestions for the tech issues involved, but 1900s and Mantas are cool and I hope this works out.

I have to say that, oh, something like a GM pushrod 3.4 would probably have been a lot (excuse me, a LOT) easier...

Phhfff that takes all the fun out. But either way most of these modern v6 engines would have required custom oil pan route. I just like the SHO so much plus the name is meant to be.


1993mtx how much have u looked into it the dry sump?? Send me a PM as I am looking for some info on how it could work on the SHO motor.

 

[HotRodKid]

Very little. Actually those inner fenders are actually the pinch welds for the unidody. They can trimmed a little and then reinforced. Likely have to becasue of engine movement when/if it gets there.


Yes dry sumpa equals some dough but solves more than 1 problem. I am looking for some engine shops that are familar with this setup. As I am not

dry sump pan
oil lines to pump
filters someplace in said oil lines to grab anything large
pump
oil tank
oil lines to pump
pump
filter
engine
repeat

its realy not hard, especially if you happen to have a complete cad file for a sho dry sump pan

 

[BlackonBlack89]

dry sump pan
oil lines to pump
filters someplace in said oil lines to grab anything large
pump
oil tank
oil lines to pump
pump
filter
engine
repeat

its realy not hard, especially if you happen to have a complete cad file for a sho dry sump pan

U have my attention....................care to elborate by PM maybe

 

[JEM]

1993mtx how much have u looked into it the dry sump?? Send me a PM as I am looking for some info on how it could work on the SHO motor.

The biggest problem you've got is that multi-stage dry-sump pumps can be very, very bulky. How much of the factory bracketry/front dress are you keeping? You'll need someplace to hang it.

The BMW S62 (E39 M5) motors Dinan's been running in the ALMS DP series have a wonderful pan arrangement that's applicable to just about anything, it's a sandwich of CNC-milled aluminum plates, with a projection off one side to which the pump mounts directly with the inlet ports O-ringed to the pan. No scavenge hoses, just sucks straight out of the sump. I'll see if I can come up with some pictures, or some info on who made it, but if the bottom of your engine compartment is narrow you might still have a problem. Turn the pump around and point it forward?

 

[HotRodKid]

U have my attention....................care to elborate by PM maybe

its actually rather simple, a dry sump setup, in its most basic form, is just a modified wet sump setup

the pan: made to funnel the oil towards the pickups, usualy at least 2 port so that no matter which way the g forces are going the oil is heading towards a pickup

pan filters: either they screw into the pan ports or are inline in the braided hoses, they kip big stuff from munching the pump

braided lines: connect the pan to the pump (duh)

the pump: usualy at least 3 stages, one being pressure TO the engine, the rest sucking oil or oil vapor from the engine

tank: where the oil gets pumped to, a basic tank is just for storage, but a GOOD tank is designed to settle the air from the oil in the process, using bafflesto do so. the valve cover breather gets relocated to the tank also

from there the oil goes back to the pressure stage of the pump, sent thru the oil filter / cooler, and into the engine

any dry sump system requires that the stock pump be removed OR rendered inoperable and blocked off.

since the sho pump is crank driven im not sure how to render it inoperable yet. maybe gut it and throw in a spacer ? and then tap / plug the block somplace between the pump and the stock oil filter location, then you use the return side of the old oil filter mount as the oil supply port, and do an external oil filter setup in the process (w/ or w/o an oil cooler)

the more exotic dry sump pumps are as many as 8 stages, sometimes with multiple pressure stages, some with a stage ment simply to pump oil from the tank, thru a cooler / filter and DIRECTLY back to the oil tank

 

[SASHO91]

What about modifiying the oil pan? Cutting a couple inches down from the block, and flipping the oil pan 180*. Obviously, you'll need to make a custom pick up tube, but that's easier and cheaper than a dry sump.

 

[HotRodKid]

cast aluminium is full of pinholes, and holds alot of oil because of it, add in the fact that oxidation doesnt float to the top of the weld pool (like it does with steel) and you see why its hard to weld used aluminium properly

its way less work and aggravation to make a new pan from steel

cutting the pan down and flipping the bottom would also require a bunch of patches to fix the fact that the pans asymetrical in design

 

[SuperHO]

So why not go with a steel pan? It'd weigh maybe 5lbs more than the aluminum one, and as long as he ran an external oil cooler, heat transfer should be fine.

just seems like that dry sump setup would cost more than the car, the engine and the time altogether. Especially since you have to render the oil pump inop...