PLEASE....SHO Needs HELP NOW!!!

[scotthurd]

I bought a 1994 SHO used. It has around 135,000 miles on it and it needed some TLC. Bought it with an exhaust leak (the flex pipe had been cut out and replaced with a regular piece of tailpipe). Test drove, it ran just fine, fell in love with the feel of it. a little bit of power loss which I thought was due to the exhaust leak? Took it to get the flex pipe and turns out the cats were also bad.
There were oil in the plug wells but the car seemed to run just fine.
I replaced the valve cover gaskets, air intake manifold gaskets, cleaned it up a bit and put it all back together. I used throttle body/carb cleaner to clean out that beautiful air intake. I also replaced the catalytic converters with brand new ones, also replaced both o2 sensors with bosch. Still have not replaced the missing flex pipe so that exhaust leak is still there.
I went to start it up and it just would not fire up. I pushed the gas a few times hoping that it would start but it didn't.(did this for about 10 mins on and off)

Turns out I had the firing order wrong. Put the wires in the correct order and it started right up! However, I had a rough idle and the car would stall after I pressed the gas and let up, stalled after rpms dropped. I was told to mess with the screw that makes it idle higher? after tightening it a bit the car stays running just fine, idle seems a little high but pretty close to acceptable.

The car seems to run great, sounds great engine wise. Took it for a short spin and the catalytic converters are glowing RED HOT! They look like they are going to catch on fire, completely orange! I figured it is getting unburned fuel somehow but I do not know what would cause that? bad fuel air mixture? Im hoping it did not ruin the cats or o2's.
I replaced the spark plugs because the old ones looked fouled. Did not replace the wires. I am very confused seeing as how the car seems to run smoothly other than the cats getting way too hot! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am stumped, doing all my own work here! I love this car and really want to get it up and running!

 

[pitaSHO]

Red hot cats. Wow. Can't say I've ever seen that. Don't panic, though. Whatever it is it CAN be fixed. Having to adjust the idle screw seems a little strange. I've owned seven of these cars and never had to adjust the idle screw. Welcome to the Busted Knuckle Club. :wave:

Chris K.

 

[CademiaX]

red hot cats, usually mean bad cats..

If the fuel mixture is way outta wack that might cause it, but I assume the O2 sensors would throw a code at that point..

any codes?

 

[scotthurd]

See thats the problem, usually it would mean bad cats but these were brand new. Unless i by chance got the 1 out of 10000 that come bad from the factory. Yes the check engine light comes on but I haven't got as far as learning how to read the codes on this car, its a bit confusing but I'm sure I'll figure it out. I read on this forum a way to pull the codes. Guess I'll have to get out there and do it. In the meantime is there anything i should be looking for that could be something I overlooked or things that are common problems with fuel/air mixture on these cars.

 

[scotthurd]

Okay, I attempted to pull the codes. I couldn't figure out the KOER codes because for some reason the O/D button didn't show that it was turning the O/D on or off? maybe im just not doing it right? But here are the KOEO codes:
121 - Throttle position sensor out of range
327 - EGR feedback signal is/was low - EVR or PFE
217 - Primary circuit failure Ignition coil 3 - Ignition system

codes 121 and 327 came up first then when it came to the stored codes it gave me
codes 217 and 327.
A side note, the IMRC (the little black canister with the vacuum lines), something inside rattles if i shake it a bit. Not sure if its supposed to do that, or if that could cause any problem.

So where should I go from here? Like I said I couldn't figure out the KOER codes, will those be any different? I really appreciate the help guys. Thanks for the welcome!

 

[Big D]

Call autozone and see if they have the ford eec-iv adapter for their scan tool, the Actron CP9185. If not, they should have the hand held CP9015. Both scanners will do KOEO and KOER. They will NOT loan the 9185 out to you. I hope it's a short trip to the nearest az if you're not going to jumper the light...

 

[jonvo4591]

well, i'm no expert, but i've read around. if i recall, an engine running lean can cause things to glow red hot. i've seen this happen on rx-7s with the wankel engines, and the exhaust manifold glows red hot. so, if it didn't idle well, and you had to adjust the idle, it's possible you could have a vacuum leak somewhere in the intake, maybe something you overlooked while removing and re-installing it. I've never had mine off, so i don't know what to suggest. i hope i have my facts straight, and best of luck figuring it out.

 

[scotthurd]

I cant drive it to autozone because i currently dont have it on the road. I figured I would get it all fixed up before I get it on the road, that way i don't damage anything on the car. I want this car running strong and be a proud SHO owner. The scan tool would make things so much easier but I dont have one to use. Wish i could get the jumper trick to work for the KOER....
Yes I am sure that its getting a lean mixture because its definitely getting unburned gas in those cats, they are brand new and should not glow red hot! Anybody else know what I could try? I'm trying to do all the research I can but I am basically stumped. Can anyone tell me what I should do with those codes? What does the primary circuit failure one mean? should i replace the coil pack? Im open to any and all suggestions.

 

[ilikepoultry]

http://www.shotimes.com/php-bin/mod...le=article&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0&sid=83

hope this helps

 

[scotthurd]

Thank you for the link ilikepoultry, it gave me the same info i had but allowed me to double check the process. The reason I couldn't run KOER was due to my O/D wires being severed completely. I hooked up a toggle switch and it allowed me to do the test because I could then turn on/off O/D. The KOER codes it gave me were the following:
213 - Ignition SPOUT or SAW circuit open or shorted - Ignition Systems
327 - EGR feedback signal is/was low - EVR or PFE

Now what? Anyone have any ideas?

 

[SHOmethewayhome]

check on the Throttlebody side of the intake back corner where the EGR valve bolts onto the intake, make sure there is a gasket in there or it will run like shit, also, on the back side of the intake there are some vaccuum lines, make sure those aren't broken and hook them up correctly.

do a search on the forum for the SPOUT connector, and plug it back in. people pull them usually to get thru emissions, and it causes a drop in power and a lean running condition if i remember correctly.

 

[scotthurd]

Both spout connectors are plugged in. I double checked them with the guide on here just to make sure they were the right plugs. As for the EGR valve gasket, well that has a rip in it. I'll make a trip to the parts store tomorrow and to get one of those. Thermostat is also bad... All of the vacuum lines around the intake are connected, they look to be in decent shape and should all be hooked up correctly. Like I said before, the little black canister does have something rattling around in there, I am not sure its supposed to do that??? Keep the suggestions coming guys. I wish I could find a parts car for it, not many SHO's of any condition around this area...

 

[Vnuk1]

I had that same SPOUT code too and it turned out to be a bad MAF.

 

[LJRuddy]

I had the same problem that you did only it was on my 98 Mustang GT. It was caused by a bad DPFE (Differential Pressure Feedback) sensor. On the SHO, it is located on the driver's side of the engine bay, between the intake and firewall. It looks identical to this:

That EGR code could be showing up because of that sensor going bad. If the EGR system is not functioning properly, you will get red hot cats eventually. And red hot cats will cause them to go bad sooner rather than later.

A bad MAF sensor will NOT cause red hot cats. Well, it can in a VERY round about way (read: improper fuel mixture). However, a bad MAF sensor will cause driveability issues. A good way to test for a bad MAF, however, is to start the car, and while it is idling, unplug the MAF sensor. The car SHOULD stall out or run extremely rough. The "Check Engine" light will also turn on while the sensor is unplugged.

 

[tompumped]

Where in NY are you, just curious?
I didn't know that about the egr causing red hot cats, interesting.
My first thought was unburnt fuel getting ignited in the cats.
Good luck with it

 

[tompumped]

One more thing. With my first sho I went crazy trying to diagnose a spout code problem. After tracing all the wires and making sure there was no breaks in the wires, by doing a continuity test or visual inspection, I ended up replacing the ignition module with a used one and the problem was gone. I also performed tests that I got off alldata or a ford manual. I even checked the spout connectors for continuity.
It's pretty funny, because an old mechanic that I talked to about it said it's probably the ignition module. Maybe it was a lucky guess who knows, I thought he was a parts changer so I didn't take his word for it.

 

[scotthurd]

hey tompumped, I'm located in the small town of Belmont, NY. I visually checked the wires as best i could and did not see any breaks but i havent taken the harness out all the way. I had no idea about the egr causing red cats either, as I too thought it would be unburned fuel igniting in the cats. I haven't been able to work on it for the past few days due to work but Im planning on looking at it tomorrow. I'll see what it does with the new egr gasket and ill try unplugging the maf to see what happens. Im stumped but I'll try anything within reason.

 

[scotthurd]

when you say ignition module, do you mean the DIS thats located on the intake plenum?
sorry just want to make sure i know what youre talking about.

 

[SHO_DOODmorrris]

Are you near a junkyard? try to get ahold of a spare ignition coil and see if that clears up the coil failure code. if that dosent you either need a new DIS module OR one of the three wires running from the DIS to the coil has been cut. PM me if you want a wiring diagram. I have a spare MAF, DIS, coil pack, and TPS sensor that i can send you for cheap. Shoot me a PM

-Mitch

 

[cfamilyfix]

I too have experienced this with RX7's...usually a very rich mixture will produce unburned fuel in cats (read this as too much fuel ...not enough air) or stuck open secondaries in carb. In the sho's case it sounds like you need to go back over all the connections for the secondaries. Vaacuum lines etc...binding movable parts. Brand new pars should not be glowing red hot. Could you have installed backwards; inlet and outlet reversed...I'm not sure this would make a difference, but just an idea. Hope this helps.