Pinging, and other stuff...

[SASHO91]

not my car.....
but a 93 ATX....
Friend had it die on him, and was not able to restart...
Well today, Me and another friend, went over to go check it out.
We swaped over a few parts,ECT, IAB, DIS, and checked the CID.
Still nothing, Though the ECT helped alittle.
We keep on trying to start it... nothing... its cranking, and turning over, but doesnt want to completly turn over... and it also would through a backfire out of the intake....
Now, i knew it had to be an ignition related item... DIS, COIL, CPS, CID, or something.....
well after some food, we go back out and try to start it again... this time, it is alittle better, and actually starts turning over... during the whole process, i was going back and fourth with WOT starts and regular starts...
so i went WOT, and it started.... i had to keep it up at 2k, but as soon as i let the revs drop, it started to ping BAD.... and it wouldnt keep idle... seemed like a miss....

So, from what i can gather, is either the CPS, took a complete dump... More than likely.... or it jumped timing... which, would cause the pinign.... im guessing on that part, as i have yet to hear a motor ping like that....
And i dought that a CPS could cause that ping, but like i said, i have not ever experinced this yet....
so.. what do yall think... we are heading back over tomorrow, with a Coil pack, and plan on taking a look at the CPS... the coil pack, is just "in case" for reassurance.... it might be the coil pack, but, with the ping, i just dont know...
isnt pining from to much timing.... if so, could the CPS, and the coil pack be causing this....
Thanks for the help....

 

[Mike Jones Who?]

if it is backfiring it is timing more than likely it jumped timing. did he rag on it hard before this happened or did it recently over heat. i know the torinos motor and the sho motor are different but it is basically the same concept. it was the exact same diagnosis for the torino. oh yeah i got the dui ignition and fms wires installed today

 

[Electricat]

The backfiring through the intake, and "almost" starting are classic symptoms of a bad cam position sensor....easy to change (2 bolts, 1 connector), and fairly cheap (around $30).

Just take it easy with tightening those bolts...the holes strip very easily! (Not that I would do such a foolish thing, it happened to, ummm....a friend!)

BTW, if this turns out to be the problem, and I'm pretty sure it is, he should change his oil ASAP afterwards....when this happened to me, I ended up with a lot of gas in the oil, which is real bad for bearings!

 

[F-22 Raptor SHO]

just to clarify something, you said the car runs fine above 2k, but when you let off of it, it starts pinging bad (down right knocking its sounds like), then dies.

1: IF is was any of the other things you describe, you would have a code. I know you cant check codes for a car that doesnt run enough to read the code. So try this:

I want you to remove your crossover tube and then the upper timing belt cover, you might be surprized to see that the timing belt is not very tight. This would cause your automatic to run like crap, start tough and ping like there's no tomorrow below 2k. The cause is a bad timing belt tensioner. Easy to check....a bit tougher to fix.

 

[SASHO91]

Mike, he wasnt ragging on the car, as he is using it daily and on long drives....
but he did say that it has gotten warmer than usual..

The CID "looked" fine but being an electrical unit, ...... DUH......
We are going to pull off the Top Timing cover and check.... since were in there, might as well change that little buggar....

Michael, it did seem to run, ok..... but there was some hesitation... that might very well be the case... thanks for the info.

was i correct with the pinging?

 

[TYSHO]

We are going to pull off the Top Timing cover and check.... since we're in there, might as well change that little buggar....

Pulling the top cover off to inspect the belt tension is way easier and less work than it is to change out the timing belt. Removing the cover is only to help determine the cause, if it is indeed the tensioner not putting tension on the belt. Also, when I had this situation, it made for a knock noise...pretty loud.

If it were me in this situation, I would do as Electricat said, replace the CID. If the owner cannot afford to loose money, if it doesn't cure the problem, you can always take yours out and swap it over to see if it heals the problem. It is only two 7/32's(?) bolt heads and a connector, then it slides out. You know where it is, right? If not, I can send a pic via email.


Edit: If you guys do remove the upper timing cover and find no slack between the sprocket, be sure to put a 19mm or 3/4" socket on the crankshaft and spin it. There happens to be a position in which it tensions between the cam sprockets, but going through the whole belt you will find slack if it is the problem.

 

[SASHO91]

yea, i know were it is...
we took it out to inspect it....

i will tell him that a CID is a good idea, and if he hasnt got paid, by tomorrow, (supposed to have got paid today) then i will swap mine over... or my friends, if they have to be ATX/MTX specific... which i dont think they do...
and yes they are 7/32.
thats bad when you know bolt sizes off the top of your head right?!?!? i do it all the time when im working on my friends sho... he is like, how the **** do you know that???? its just funny....

 

[TYSHO]

if they have to be ATX/MTX specific... which i dont think they do...
and yes they are 7/32.
thats bad when you know bolt sizes off the top of your head right?!?!? i do it all the time when im working on my friends sho... he is like, how the **** do you know that???? its just funny....

They are the same for all SHO's.

lol...I can tell you all the sizes when doing a clutch/tranny job!

 

[SASHO91]

:laugh_ti:
tell me about it.....

remember my keychain..... :laugh_ti:
thats sho life for ya.....

 

[TYSHO]

remember my keychain..... :laugh_ti:
thats sho life for ya.....

I can make quite a few myself, too! :cry:

 

[SASHO91]

ok..
Well it wasnt the CID.
But, it is the Timing belt tensioner...
At first we had tension on the belt, which i thought it was all good...
but then we went to bump the motor to take off the dampner... took that off... went to lunch.
came back and saw that the timing belt was loose. so after trying to understand the manual... we figured out that the tensioner went out...

any suggestions on the replacement/procedure??
TIA

 

[SHOtimer]

Well, at this point basically follow the procedure in the manual for replacing the timing belt. Remove the tensioner and the belt. Realign the cams and the crank install the belt, install another good working tensioner (find one) and then button it back up.

You can probably find one if you post in the WTB section....

Doug

 

[SASHO91]

so i take it that there are not availible anymore???

if this is the case... that sucks...


ok thanls for the help doug.

been awhile man...

 

[SHOtimer]

so i take it that there are not availible anymore???

if this is the case... that sucks...


ok thanls for the help doug.

been awhile man...

Indeed. I have been here..you just haven't been returning my calls. They are long discontinued. Some last for a long time and others **** out (the tensioners). So, find a good used one and slap it in there.

Doug

 

[TYSHO]

Yes, they are long gone and I had to buy a new one not long ago...kinda sucks.

Anyways, hit me up, I know someone who might have one.