OK, can someone dispel some concerns for me?

[Conquest351]

What is the limiting factor on performance from these cars? I hear Torque Converter, I hear Transmission, I hear PTU. Ok, which is it and what is the fix? I only have drop in K&N, plugs, MAP, and tune on mine and have the t-stat but haven't installed it yet. I'd like to do more as time and $$ permits, but I don't want to sacrifice reliability as it's my only car. I also see guys putting down over 500hp with no problems. So I'm confused. LOL Sorry guys, still green to these cars.

 

[SaveMelMac]

There is no guarantee with anything but it’s the PTU. Guys running stock, guys making more power all have had them go bad. Mine has been replaced with 30k miles being stock for those miles (as far as I know). Looks to just be a bad design. All you can really do is change the fluid more often. Most people recommend every 20k miles.

 

[Conquest351]

I work at a Ford dealership and one of my technicians was telling me he just went to a class on these. The earlier designs had a thrust washer installed under the idler gear in the PTU. Now it has a thrust bearing and the failure rates have gone down apparently. Is it a heat issue? Has anyone thought of installing a PTU fluid cooler? We used to do this on road race cars and use a Tilton fluid pump and a simple transmission fluid/oil cooler you would install up front to get some air flow. Possibly even a catch can/reservoir that will hold an additional quart or 2 of fluid. Shouldn't be too big of a deal I would imagine.

 

[luigisho]

Putting down 500 with no problems. I'm not sure how many of those are daily drivers without a second vehicle to back them up. Or what the owners risk tolerance and checkbooks look like.

The entire driveline can be an issue due to design. Parts are failing at stock levels so take your cues on maintenance and how much you want to beat on it from there. Also there are issues with waterpump failures with internal leaks of coolant and engine damage. Also some timing chain stuff. You have to drill down on each topic to develop a feel for frequency and maintenance intervals that make sense.

Extra quart? The PTU holds 18oz of fluid with a recommendation from the factory of changing it never. Extra cooling would be nice but this car has so many parts shoved in there. I suppose you could design something. The 'lifetime' fluid in this unit gets really black and gooey. Search around the ecoboost forums and see what pops up.

 

[krewat]

And when you really get up there in the power, the cylinders start to squirm underneath the head gaskets, but there's a fix. LOL



https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP750101

 

[Conquest351]

Yeah, we just did a warranty replacement on the PTU on an Explorer Platinum for the natural gas smell. It had a broken tooth on one of the gears. The fluid was friggin NASTY and stunk the whole damn shop up for 2 days. LOL. What are you guys using for fluid replacement on the PTUs?

 

[SaveMelMac]

from My reading looks to be a combination of such little amount of fluid in the ptu, and heat from the downpipe which runs right below it. PP cars do have a cooler running to the PTU but I think they still fail. My car is a PP with the cooler and it failed. Would be interesting to see the fairer rate of PP vs. non pp cars. To plum in an additional cooler would be very difficult due to the tight fit of the ptu and lack of space.

I have been thinking about maybe wrapping the downpipe with some header wrap to keep the temps down. I think besides that there’s not much else you can do besides changing the fluid more often.

 

[Conquest351]

Exhaust/header wrap may be a good idea. I saw the cooler on the PTU we pulled from that Explorer and all it is is just a plate on the side that coolant passes through. Not a very efficient "cooler" if you ask me.

 

[Lostneye]

PTU fluid changes make a big difference. Wrapping the exhaust or other means of keeping excess heat out of the PTU can only help but eventually the fluid is gong to break down and need to be changed. The transmission IMHO is relatively stout, the snap ring issue seems to plague stock cars just as much. Timing chain stretch seems to affect a lot of Fords with miles, at least Ford's cam phaser issues seem to be mostly resolved. Water pumps are typically higher mileage cars again fluid changes help with this. The big issue is more that with these motor its possible and does happen that the coolants contaminates the oil and takes the whole motor with it if not caught early and it's a expensive fix even if it doesn't.

 

[SM105K]

They are a mixed bag. These cars are an investment. I love mine.

 

[SHOdded]

400 whp/500 wtq is a very happy level for bone stock daily-driven cars. Keep all fluids fresh, and consider these power levels to be severe duty, service accordingly.

 

[Conquest351]

400 whp/500 wtq is a very happy level for bone stock daily-driven cars. Keep all fluids fresh, and consider these power levels to be severe duty, service accordingly.

I would be pretty OK with this level.

 

[gimpy]

I would be pretty OK with this level.

Tune, 3bar, cai/drop-in, down pipes, GH intercooler, t-stat and freshly gapped plugs will get you there.

 

[StealBlueSho]

I have spoken with livernois extensively on this as I was JUST talking to them last week and this week about getting ATPs and how far they are willing to tune it.

The answer I received was these motors are perfectly happy at 465awhp and similar torque. And LMS is fine letting them out of the shop this way and putting them name to it.

This tells me something knowing how concerned they are with their track track record of tuning these cars... that if LMS is willing to let the stock block push that kind of power they are not worried about it blowing.

Mike Bambic says 500/500 is where they max out and the concern is more the transmissions at the point.

I’m gonna split the difference and get mine tuned to 475/500 here in the next month or so with some better snails.

As far as the PTU? Matt Robinson is seeing with the higher torque production then mounts are not able to keep the PTU from twisting which can cause issues... there are better mounts that have been made and can be purchased at the sacrifice of ride quality.

Transmissions seem to be stout with PROPER tuning. The torque convert can’t handle a ton of racing abuse once you break the 500/500 barrier as two SHOs pushing past that have had the TC go bad quick. But again, that is with serious track time and abuse.

Something to keep in mind... BPD1151 is running a built motor with his 517awhp(IIRC) with track time under it without a single drivetrain failure to do. But he maintains it extremely well.

Just food for thought!

 

[bpd1151]

Close on the memory there BJ.

Two track files, and a daily driver file, as follows:

Daily Driver: 400awhp 438awtq
"Lower" Track File: 525awhp 506awtq
"Higher" Track File: 617awhp 608awtq

And as of just this afternoon..... I'm now at 81,300 on the clock, w/o a single drivetrain failure of any kind, to date.

Although I am hesitant with new performance goodies going on soon, I am likely heading down that inevitable path of needing to do something to harden/build/fortify aspects of it eventually.

But I've been very fortunate to date. An extreme maintenance schedule is a MUST!

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[Conquest351]

Tune, 3bar, cai/drop-in, down pipes, GH intercooler, t-stat and freshly gapped plugs will get you there.

I have all that minus the intercooler and downpipes. Haven't installed the 170 T-stat yet.

Thanks again for all the info guys.

I am following a pretty regular interval of 5k oil changes, 10k PTU, trans, and rear diff drain and fills. Car is just over 83k, got it at 79k. Just did all those fluid services.

 

[ALL 4 SHO]

I have all that minus the intercooler and downpipes. Haven't installed the 170 T-stat yet.

Thanks again for all the info guys.

I am following a pretty regular interval of 5k oil changes, 10k PTU, trans, and rear diff drain and fills. Car is just over 83k, got it at 79k. Just did all those fluid services.

Just a recommendation but when you install the new t-stat it would be a great idea to go ahead and drain and flush the antifreeze and get some new stuff in there at your mileage if you haven't done so already

 

[Christian]

" And LMS is fine letting them out of the shop this way and putting them name to it."

I'm sure they are... they have your money. Easy for them to say, but if anything bad happens, will they repair your vehicle? Some aftermarket companies do back their products this way. Not sure if LMS or other tuners do?

 

[OmaHahn]

from My reading looks to be a combination of such little amount of fluid in the ptu, and heat from the downpipe which runs right below it. PP cars do have a cooler running to the PTU but I think they still fail. My car is a PP with the cooler and it failed. Would be interesting to see the fairer rate of PP vs. non pp cars. To plum in an additional cooler would be very difficult due to the tight fit of the ptu and lack of space.

I have been thinking about maybe wrapping the downpipe with some header wrap to keep the temps down. I think besides that there’s not much else you can do besides changing the fluid more often.

My car is PP and the PTU failed at about 35,000. Thank goodness for warranties! But, in its defense I've been tuned since about 700 miles! I don't beat her, I "over-maintenance," the car but I do got WOT often (you know to keep the internals clean!).

 

[Poppa Diezal]

Hey, this summary has been hugely helpful. I know I'm not on this post, but this is great. A bought my 15pp with 47k miles about a week ago. I started researching after....duh...thinking more about mods and never expecting the issues.
After seeing the PTU posts I started reading everything. But this summary has been terrific.
I have no idea whether its had issues, been taken care of...nothing. seems like I'm going to need to learn how to do all this maintenance.

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