No start after rebuilt motor swap!

[Dr.Evil]

No start after rebuilt motor swap! EDIT#2 Its Alive!

*EDIT #2*

Got it put back together, and it fired right up! Aside from a tensioner washer being put on backwards, it runs fine. I put the thermostat in backwards, so it was not cooling (shut it down at 230). Once that is switched Ill finnish breaking in the cams, change the oil and take it for a spin! BTW oil pressure was great, around 65-70 PSI! The engine is a 3.0 bored/honed .030 over.

*EDIT*

Stupid me forgot to screw on the little brass piece that the cam sensor uses to sense the cam. Timing, both cam and spark, is right on. Still worried about the low compression. Maybe it is because the new rings have not had a chance to seat? Also, I did not see any oil seaping around the cams when I cranked it over w/ the cover off. Also, the tensioner does not feel like it is charged with oil. Do these events only occur when the motor fires up?



Alright I finally got the new motor in and hooked up. I primed the oil pressure with no plugs in the holes, and saw it was flowing nicley through the fill hole. I dropped in the plugs and wires, double and tripple checked all connecors and vaccumm lines and went to start it. I heard one combustion blast through the Y-pipe, and one backfire through the intake after I gave it a small shot of starting fluid to help it out.
Here is what I have checked:

1. Its getting fuel, all the plugs are wet and there is pressure on the rail.
2. Its getting spark at TDC and once more when not at TDC...? Is this normal?
3. Timing is dead on.
4. Compression is around 125 on the one I checked.
5. Crank sensor is working because the tach moves when cranking.

I hooked up a vaccumm guage and it is registering 0.? Also, when cranking it over, there is not much suckness when putting my hand up to the TB.
So what is it? Manifold not seated? Not properly grounded? Also, does this look right? I wasn't sure which was the inlet and which was the return:

PLEASE HELP!

 

[Ishodu]

Is your cam timing right?

 

[Dr.Evil]

Is your cam timing right?

It was right when I assembled it. However the tensioner was making some noice (Chain tapping on the shield) on the rear bank before the oil pressure got built up. How would I re-check it? Wouldn't the compression check confirm if the valves were opening at the right time?

 

[Denny]

Sounds awfully familiar...is every single bolt back on? Namely, the bolts on the intake manifold crossover tube. I was lazy and didn't bolt those back on before trying to fire her. Was confusing the heck outta me until I read on here someone said to make sure those were on. Put them back on, fired her right up then she spilled oil all over the place(other problem)

 

[Denny]

It was right when I assembled it. However the tensioner was making some noice (Chain tapping on the shield) on the rear bank before the oil pressure got built up. How would I re-check it? Wouldn't the compression check confirm if the valves were opening at the right time?

Yeah that would, because if the exhaust is opening up at the wrong time it won't build up the right compression. As for 125...seems kinda low. I remember my old engine was putting out between 195-210

 

[Dr.Evil]

Yeah that would, because if the exhaust is opening up at the wrong time it won't build up the right compression. As for 125...seems kinda low. I remember my old engine was putting out between 195-210

Yea I will re-do it. I dont think it was left on long enough to get a good reading. I didn't disassemble the intake, so all cross-over bolts should be fine. I will remove it and check to see if anything lodged between the intake and heads. Should I have 0 manifold vaccumm when cranking?

 

[Ishodu]

125psi for compression is way low. Thats why I was thinking that maybe your valves are not closed when at top dead center. It would also explain the back fire. When you did the compression check did you have the throttle wide open? And are you 100% sure you have the plug wires in the correct place.

 

[Dr.Evil]

125psi for compression is way low. Thats why I was thinking that maybe your valves are not closed when at top dead center. It would also explain the back fire. When you did the compression check did you have the throttle wide open? And are you 100% sure you have the plug wires in the correct place.

I did not do the compression check at WOT. Would this explain the low reading? As far as the plugs go, the order is:


6 - 5 - 4 Front bank

3 - 2 - 1 Rear bank

I did not remove the wires from the coilpack, which came off the running motor I took out. I will do another comp. test with the throttle wide open.

 

[Dr.Evil]

Someone PLEASE verify this stuff for me. I need to get this thing fired up tomorrow.

1. Wire orentation. I have it set up like:

Front bank (looking at engine from front of car: 4 - 5 - 6
Rear bank 1 - 2 - 3

2. Vaccum pressure when cranking. I am getting little to no vaccum. Is this normal?

3. Are the cam timing belt pullies the same? (front and rear)

4. Why does the spark plug fire twice (once at TDC and once again when not)?

5. If the timing belt was off a tooth, it would read something different on the ballancer w/ the timing light. I dont think this is the problem because the spark timing looked right on w/ the light.

6. Anyhting else I am missing here? The manifold ground strap has been adjusted a few times in hopes that might not be making a perfect ground. I don't have any left over nuts/brackets/wires that are not accounted for, so I dont think I forgot to plug something in. Tomorrow I will start by re-checking the compression for 195+ PSI. If im not getting that, i'll check the cam gears for proper alignment to the chain. Anything else I should check if I have to dig back into it? Thanks for any help.

 

[Denny]

I can't comment much on the order or anything, sorry. But I would think that having zero vacuum is not a good thing. That, the low compression, and you said can't feel air sucking in would point to something wrong in the valve timing. Recheck your timing, do you have the lettering on the belt readable from the drivers side? I did that mistake once as well.
EDIT. You don't need to go WOT for a compression test. Basically you let the engine turn over a few times and it goes through it's natural compression building stage then it exhausts it. The guage reads the pressure then stops at the highest point it measured. 125 is very low...recheck that timing, make sure it is dead on. I'm betting that's what it is.

 

[DHMag]

since there is no source for vacuum (intake manifold), there will be no vacuum while cranking. power brakes are vacuum assisted, do you have power brakes when the engine isnt running ? (dont answer, just a clarification)

when doing a compression test: disconnect coil pack, remove all plugs, attach gauge, hold throttle at WOT, crank 3-4 times. when you stop, if the pressure bleeds off, relieve the pressure and check again. the pressure bleed-off is an open valve. the throttle needs to be held open at WOT because youre asking a LOT of air to move in a short amount of time. the little gap between the throttle plate and throttle body will cause your compression readings to be off/low/inconsistent.

your cylinder identification is correct:
- 1 2 3 (rear)
- 4 5 6 (front)

keep in mind, the firing order in the Chiltons is wrong. wire 4 and 5 are switched on the coil pack.

id pull the intake and valve covers off and recheck your cam positioning. low compression and an intake backfire sound like bad cam timing. if you have the Rotunda service tool set, it includes a cam positioning tool. when i did mine, one cam was between strokes (no lobes pressing on valves), and the other is mid-stroke.

 

[Ishodu]

Engine
1-2-3
4-5-6

Coil Pack
5 | 1
6 | 2
4 | 3

This is the correct way for the plug wires.

 

[Rockledge]

Why does the spark plug fire twice (once at TDC and once again when not)?

Because the Ford DIS igntion system is based on a "waste spark" design which means that two spark plugs are fired at the same time, one on the compression stroke and one on the exhaust stroke.

SHO plug wire routing:

 

[Dr.Evil]

Compression re-check confirmed low compression. all were around 130-135.
First I checked the timing belt. It was not put on backwards.
I am 100% sure the rear bank cam chain sprockets are on. I checked right before I put the cover on.
I took the front cover off and looked at the marks. They are not lineing up at all with the silver cam gears. Do these act the same way as the timing belt (once its set the marks don't line back up? I would have thought that the gears/chain is a 1-1 ratio and should line up every time around...?

Also, are the front/rear timing belt cam pullies interchangable? Could I have gotten those mixed up?

 

[Dr.Evil]

id pull the intake and valve covers off and recheck your cam positioning. low compression and an intake backfire sound like bad cam timing. if you have the Rotunda service tool set, it includes a cam positioning tool. when i did mine, one cam was between strokes (no lobes pressing on valves), and the other is mid-stroke.

This was how mine was also. The front bank was flat and the rears were pressing the on the valves. I do not have the tool to hold the cams down, and in the process of torqueing them I stripped four holes. (I fixed them and all are torqued properly)

 

[Dr.Evil]

Here is where the timing marks are in relation to the silver links:

Does this look right? Shouldn't they be lined up?

 

[revhardSHO]

The motor is not running yet correct?

As for the low compression readings, did you have the block punched out from a 3.0? If a 3.2 block was it honed/deglazed?


The cam sprockets are interchangeable. As for the tensioner chain, I think it should stay lined up with the cams at all times, look into that. Could be why your seeing low compression readings and why its not starting.

 

[DHMag]

This was how mine was also. The front bank was flat and the rears were pressing the on the valves. I do not have the tool to hold the cams down, and in the process of torqueing them I stripped four holes. (I fixed them and all are torqued properly)

im referring to one head. one cam mid-stroke. other cam in stroke. it was that way on both heads.

 

[Denny]

Good to hear she's running again! Looks like we all were off, but at least it was a relatively easy fix. As for the lower comp...hmm is that something that builds up as the motor breaks in?

 

[Dr.Evil]

Good to hear she's running again! Looks like we all were off, but at least it was a relatively easy fix. As for the lower comp...hmm is that something that builds up as the motor breaks in?

I guess Ill find out!
Now I need a PRO-M and a high-flow Y to go with those cams and Tweecer!