No one will bleed my brakes!

[centaurus3200]

after our discussion on this board about bleeding brakes, i decided to have it done. only problem is that most shops will not touch a car with abs.

they said that the only time they've ever seen abs fail is after a brake flush. i said i thought they were two totally different systems, the brakes and the abs. many said, yeah, that would make sense, but they were not going to risk having to pay for $1500 for abs actuators for a $50 brake flush.

they also said that it is not a recommended service to flush brakes.

so, either i should just leave them alone and figure that that guy goss on motorweek is a paranoid idiot or take it to the dealership.

any suggestions. i figure changing the brake fluid and leaving the abs system alone should be fine. but, these cars are downright evil at times, so the abs crapping out after the flush would not surprise me.

see ya,
Robby

 

[89 Gary]

Robby,the main problem is that you live in a state where many people are PARANOID!!!! Ignore those pencil neck geeks and bring to your Ford dealer to do it. If your abs doesn't work after that then you make them fix it for free because they screwed it up.I highly doubt it'll screw up the abs-don't believe in fools talk. Oh yeah-move!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FAST4DR]

Man, somebody is really pulling your chain. Screwing up the ABS? It is a pump, plain and simple. You should flush/change your brake fluid at least every two years. Brake fluid is hydroscopic(absorbs water). Changing your brake fluid is easy, but it is a little time consuming.

William

 

[JonVH]

I am very intested in this whole brake flush topic...Thanks for everyone's input.

Question - Is there a gauge to test the brake fluid for water content like there is for checking your antifreeze? If it were important as some people are saying you would think there would be, & that most garages would use it to tell people they need to flush their system so they can make some more money as well.

 

[TimZ]

The ABS system is a bit more than just a pump, and it is inextricably linked to your brakes' hydraulic system. There are a series of hydraulic valves that control the building and dumping of pressure to each wheel. If air makes its way into one of these valves, the system will not work properly, and it is somewhat difficult to bleed the air out of these valves, since they aren't necessarily open when you are trying to bleed the system.

All is not lost, though. First of all, if you just want to do is put in fresh fluid, then the normal bleeding procedure should work fine. Just make absolutely sure that you don't let the master cylinder run dry. If you want to make sure that you get fresh fluid in all of the circuits of the hydraulic control unit (the piece that houses all of the valves), then do some ABS stops (find a safe place to do this, obviously) and bleed it again.

If you were to get air into the system, no permanent damage will be done (assuming you don't wreck the car from the decreased braking efficiency

). The dealership should be able to use their service bay diagnostic tool to command the ABS unit to shuffle fluid through the hydraulic circuits, and push the air to where it can be easily bled out. Alternatively, you can usually get the air out of the valves by doing several ABS stops, and then bleeding the system.

[This message has been edited by TimZ (edited 12-17-2001).]

 

[fricker66]

I know that Griots Garage sells a tester for the water content in your brake fluid. Check out their website for their great products at griotsgarage.com As for garages not pushing the brake service, I'd say it ranks up there with them not pushing for servicing rear end housings. On my 66 Mustang, I changed the oil when we swapped gears but I'll swear that it was never touched before that. 34 years of service. Probably couldn't get too many places to take that job. The public nevers hears too many horrors stories from brake failure as a result of water content in the lines. But they do hear of antifreeze and fuel related problems, thus the push for these services at any local oil change shop. Just my thoughts.

------------------
Frederick Ricker
89 Black w/ 78k mi
Stock w/ 91 Slicers

 

[rlw001]

Get yourself some Russell Speed Bleeder and good fluid like ATE Blue racing fluid and do it yourself.



------------------
Bob W
94' ATX, SHOshop Y-Pipe, SHO Shop UDPs, 70mm FPS MAF, SuperChip,
K&N Panel, Coneless, 96' Brake Upgrade, Colgan Bra, PIAA 1552 Driving Lights, Eibachs/Tokicos, 24mmFSB, 26mmRSB, Subframe Connectors, 17x8 TSW Hock Rs, 225/45/17 Bridgestone RE040s, 255lph Walbro Fuel Pump.

 

[pjtoledo]

I have bleed the brakes on my 92 MTX many times. It now has 233,000 miles on it and the ABS works fine. Bleed the wifes 95 MTX also, no problems. The ABS automatically cycles every time the car is started and driven, thats the buzz you hear at about 7 to 17 MPH.
Perry Toledo,Ohio

 

[TimZ]

Originally posted by pjtoledo:
The ABS automatically cycles every time the car is started and driven, thats the buzz you hear at about 7 to 17 MPH.

That's just the pump check. The ABS ECU does this once per power cycle, to make sure that the pump still works. It does not cycle the valves.

 

[89 Gary]

Originally posted by TimZ:
That's just the pump check. The ABS ECU does this once per power cycle, to make sure that the pump still works. It does not cycle the valves.

Tim, I see your from Dearborn and that your an automotive engineer. What exactly do you do and are you a Ford employee? We do enjoy having people like you on the board so keep us up with some knowlegeable info.

 

[centaurus3200]

well, i've done panic stops and the brakes pulsate. i'm pretty sure it works the way it always had. i just thought it would be a good idea to get the brakes bled since i'm sure that they've never been bled before.

i never knew it was such a great fear amongst mechanics though.

keep the info coming. i will print this thread out and give it to the ford mechanic.

all i can say is, i will totally freak out if the abs fails after the brakes are seviced.

 

[TimZ]

Originally posted by centaurus3200:
all i can say is, i will totally freak out if the abs fails after the brakes are seviced.

They won't fail from being bled. Also, several other posts were correct in saying that this should be done periodically - your brakes are much more likely to fail due to old/contaminated brake fluid than from being bled periodically.

I think you've figured this out already, but I want to mention that if the shop is hesitant to do this work and giving you lame excuses not to, I'd take it to somebody who knows what they are doing, rather than try to force them into it.

And yes, I do work for Ford, but I DO NOT speak as a Ford representative (I'm required to say that

). I work on Chassis Electronic Control Systems, which includes ABS, although my main experience has been in stability control systems.

Thanks for the welcome.

(...not trying to start a resume ******* contest or anything - somebody asked

)



[This message has been edited by TimZ (edited 12-18-2001).]

 

[white94sho]

f the ****** contest my uncle works for a ford dealership and he knows a lot more about some stuff than I do, thats why I call him all the time (sometimes he hangs up). Always helps to have improvement no matter where it comes from. But I do like to change fluid every few years or every second to third time I do brakes.

 

[centaurus3200]

thanks guys. man, i love this forum!

i'm going away for the holidays this weekend, but next weekend, i will print out this thread and give it to the ford dealer next weekend when they bleed the brakes.

i'm very interested in keeping the car in tip top condition so i don't have any regrets when i get all my suspension stuff finally on the car (still in nick chrimes' garage) and order the y-pipe and the UDPs.

in typical SHO fashion, i could imagine seeing the brakes crap out once i get all the stuff on the car and slam into a semi.

hey tim z, thanks for the insider info. can you hire scott (sdpatt) to join the ford team. it would be his dream job!

see ya,
Robby

------------------
92 SHO MTX
silver on gray with all options
kyb struts
sho shop motor mounts
edelbrock RPM exhaust with 3.5" beveled chrome tips
sho shop aluminum sub frame bushings
sho shop 29mm rear sway bar
shop shop sub frame connectors
Alpine CDM-7824 deck
all work performed by Sho Shop and Shonut
Shonut rebuilt tranny with new clutch and boy does it feel good.