no go zoom

[zoomx2]

okay..car was running fine..coming down a off ramp at 120, pulled another gear car fell on its face. put it in neutral tried to re-start..nothing, while still coasting tried bump start.still nothing. Now when you turn over the starter it sounds like it is just free wheeling. I think the starter drive is toast as it is not engaging. the problem is everything works electrically but the engine light, it does not light up...its -14c and I have to work outside so where should I start? Starter< testing something..help please, it is a 1989 with 240 on it

 

[projectSHO89]

If the starter motor freewheels when you hit the starter, that usually means the Bendix has failed. Due to your temps, it is possible that it is frozen due to moisture, etc. Try popping it with a crowbar or a heavy broomstick while trying to crank it. That will often unstick a sluggish starter.

It also sounds like the ignition system failed. More testing will be needed once you get the starter problem resolved.

What is the "engine" light. My 89 doesn't have a light labeled "engine".

Steve

<small>[ December 19, 2002, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: projectSHO89 ]</small>

 

[twr]

zoomx2:
okay..car was running fine..coming down a off ramp at 120, pulled another gear car fell on its face. put it in neutral tried to re-start..nothing, while still coasting tried bump start.still nothing. Now when you turn over the starter it sounds like it is just free wheeling. I think the starter drive is toast as it is not engaging. the problem is everything works electrically but the engine light, it does not light up...its -14c and I have to work outside so where should I start? Starter< testing something..help please, it is a 1989 with 240 on it

If you're not getting a CEL with the ignition in the run position then the PCM is getting no power. Check fuses or the black box, top drivers of the radiator has a larger letter on it. I had one fail recently and it gave no CEL light at all, even when trying to pull codes.

 

[zoomx2]

tried the rubber mallet thing, hard to get a good wack at it..still it just free wheels, have some pals that need to lose some weight so we are going to try to bump start, if it still does not go..where do i begin?? will test the fuses and links to be sure everything that is supposed to be getting juice is. CEL..dead light need new bulb

 

[blewbyu]

Not to sound like a know it all, but first you need a working bulb in the CEL. Then get the codes and repost.
when it is dark outside, take a spark plug boot from one of the front banks, set it on top of the intake so you cansee it from the drivers seat, put an extra plug in it(most of us have a few around the garage)hook up a jumper cable from the -negative batt. connection, to the threaded part of the plug. be sure it is setting up to where it will not ground out on the intake or whatever. Turn the key over for a moment.
If you have no spark, don't waste your time pushing it, it ain't gonna start.
For the dim whitted, keep the hood open and you do not need to connect the pos/red cable to anything., reconnect the spark plug boot to its appropriate plug in the eng.
This is just an easy way to see quickly if you have spark. wink Odds are you have fuel, your starter problem is 20-30 minutes even in the cold, and I think 75 bucks from Autozone,Orieles? I hate spelling that co.
But without a working CEL, you do not know what your car is trying to tell you. wink And I am pretty sure by your post that your car has something to say. boink have you checked your connections at the DIS, an cam sensor, etc. Craig

 

[zoomx2]

have checked all the connections..all are tight and clean..small point was brought up by a passenger at the time..just before the car nosed over you could smell something burning like a electrical or clutch smell...not sure if it means anything..could have been that old van we were passing..did the bulb now to figure out how to get at the codes..dont have access to a reader..any ideas?

 

[zoomx2]

okay dumb thought..motor mount is toast..all nice and shiny on intake..could this have caused a problem? we were pulling hard and banged the shift..something come undone..? where are the cam and crank sensors? when it went down tach totally died, no responce when bumping it either..could this be tested? new bulb is in..responding to mail as fast as i can..puter is in car..technology..great sometimes sucks other

 

[projectSHO89]

Slow down, take a deep breath, and approach the problem from a logical standpoint.

First, you never bothered to identify your car. Do so. Always. Put it in your nick or in your siganture or your topic or your post or SOMEWHERE. It's important in identifying your configuration instead of going through all the possibilities. We ain't psychic.

If your starter is bad, replace it.

Instructions on how to get the codes from the computer have been posted almost every other day. Use the SEARCH feature. Laziness will get you ignored by most of those who can help you the most. (..helps those who help themselves..).

If your motor mount is bad and the engine quit with a tach dropping to zero while you slammed a shift, most likely you damaged the wiring harness or connectors to the DIS module. Inspect those. Where is the DIS? Use the SEARCH.

Steve

 

[sdpatt]

You have at least four problems, probably five. The first is the reason the engine died and sounds to be either a sensor or cabling failure to the DIS or the CPS. The second is the motor mount that may have allowed the engine movement to damage the cabling and will interfere with normal power application to the wheels. The third is the starter bendix that you may have damaged when you tried to restart on the roll. The fourth problem is the CHECK ENGINE light bulb being non-functional. The fifth problem is allowing the car to be in disrepair and still insist on abusing the drivetrain. This last situation is the root cause of at least three of the other problems that have been created.

To learn to read the codes with just a simple jumper and your ignition key, go here. For the starter and the CPS you can search the Forum or SHOtimes.com for different write-ups.

 

[zoomx2]

okay..pulled starter..toast..appears to have been a on going thing..the burn smell appears to have been the starter..yes i have done searches that is why i have come here..from here i was able to check out the DIS and other items..found the weak link i think..bared wire. going to look for a starter..am going to have the person who "borrowed" my car while theres was being fixed is in for some work..they had it for over a month..sorry if i appeared lazy.just i do not like my baby being down..you all appear to be on this site alot and any short cuts to items that may have skipped by me are always helpful.. as to what type it is a 1989 sho..with a very abused past by the looks of it..mount looked good when i lent it to the "family" member.add mounts to list..do all of them need to be done or just the 2 engine mounts??

 

[BlackOnBlackATX]

hey hey, cmon guys, lets not kick him while hes down now. im sure he already feels bad enough and i know we have all been there. zoomx2, you can always buy a scanner from walmart or an autostore, theyre like 20 bucks (american). that should at least allow you to pull some codes. but if you toasted the motor mount then you definately have some cold working afternoons ahead of you. all the other suggestions given to you do sound good though, check everything mentioned and get the codes and hopefully everything will come up.

 

[blewbyu]

You are getting some very good advice, and in a short amount of time, Gotta love the Forum
Could the burning smell have been your CPS. It would cause the car to just stop, and not run till fixed, those codes will tell you a lot about the problem. Good luck with the mounts, oh yes the motor mounts will probably need replaced by what you said, the Trans mount is not a common breakage point, it does hold up quite well, but you did say she was abused, and with that comes some of these days with problems, but she can stillast for years. Best of Luck, Craig
Did you check for a spark, it would tell you if some of the sensors are working.

 

[luigisho]

If your're going to do 2 might as well get all 3 if you have the spare cash. As one breaks it really puts stress on the others. Especially when run hard.

This is a little off topic but if you have the ability to check the bearings I would look at them at this point- 240k with hard driving. To access them you remove the y-pipe, starter, and oilpan. You'll already have one of three off.

 

[zoomx2]

sorry for the rant..replaced the starter..spis great ..no start still. have a code reader from canadian tire..so far so good..when i have something will post it here...damn its cold outside

 

[zoomx2]

pulled the codes..this is what have got for now...first set..21,22,24,59..the second set..19,22,29,59,66...we appear tohave a computer problem..help

 

[Mike Kopstain]

Lets see what we got:

19 - (O) No Vehicle Power (pins 37 + 57) or bad PCM VPWR Diagnosis
(R) Erratic idle during test (reset throttle & retest) - Idle Set Procedures
Electronic ignition Cylinder ID sensor/circuit problem - Ignition Systems

Now, time for the power of deduction. Since you are getting codes I am going to assume that code 19 is in reference to an ignition problem. As Scott and others said, get this taken care of first. check the ground wire on the intake. I have also seen the plugs on the DIS (Gray box on the side of the intake with two plugs) come unplugged from engine movement.

-------------

21 - Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor out of range

This will not affect your no-start condition, but you do want to get it taken care of.

-------------

22 - MAP (vacuum) or BARO signal out of range - MAP

**** if I know.

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24 - Intake Air Temperature (IAT) or Vane Air Temperature (VAT) sensor out of range

Again, not going to affect your no-start condition, but get it taken care of.

-------------

29 - Vehicle Speed Sensor problem

Yet again, won't affect your no-start position but could definetly cause the car to die (even when rolling) when the clutch is pushed in. The computer on the MTX uses this sensor to determine engine speed while rolling.

-------------

59 - AXOD 4/3 circuit fault - Transmissions
3.0L SHO - Low speed fuel pump circuit problem - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits

Along with spark, you need fuel and air. This code suggests that you may have a fuel flow/ pressure problem. Hook a gauge up to the shrader valve on the fuel rail and turn the key into the on position.

-------------

66 - Vane Air Flow (VAF) or Mass Air Flow (MAF) signal low - VAF MAF

Most likely isn't causing a no start condition, but could be. This will, however, greatly affect driveability and power output of the car.

-------------

Have you ever had a valve adjustment done on this car? It looks like with some simple up keep you can free a lot of stolen ponies.

 

[projectSHO89]

Still sounds like a damaged wiring harness, probably to the PCM, though.

Good luck, you are going to need it, along with a schematic, a meter, and a lot of time. Concentrate on that firs code. Without PCM power, nothing else will work. If power to the PCM is missing, many of the sensors will not work.

Steve

 

[zoomx2]

PCM..is that the device mounted under the cover over top of the radiator..some thing with a letter stamped on it?

 

[cheapsho]

i had a problem somthing like this....but i knew why my car wouldnt start...my serpentine belt shredded and ripped the wire that goes to the battery (for the computer) out...good thing i was 1/4 mile from home and coasted!....(second time that has happend when 1/2 shaft broke)..re connected..started..check your fuse type thing coming off your battery...my clip that holds it together broke and made it do the same thing...sat around for hours trying to figure out what it was ...with the engine moving around this could be the problem too...but im thinking cps, fairly hard job when its cold outside...good luck

 

[luigisho]

No pcm refers to the "computer" located behind the glove box and attached to the wiring harness through the firewall. It is held in by the bolt in the center of the wiring harness on the engine side and a small plastic clip on the cabin side. It sounds alot like pcm or wiring failure. The relay control module is the part over the radiator with the letter on top.

This could be a real bear to pinpoint so have patience. I would try a pcm transplant first and see what happens then go wire sleuthing. You could get lucky. If you know someone in your area you could try swapping pcm's then relay modules just to see if you get lucky.