Newbie to Gen3s, but need help with potential 97 SHO purchase

[ACV1081]

OK, I am a pretty knowledgeable gen 1/2 owner who is a do-it-yourself type and just recently lost my 93 ATX in an accident in June. A local insurance auction has a relatively nice 97 115K SHO black/tan for sale with engine problems. The car does not stay running and the owner claims the car needs (needed ) the cams welded. I know this is a vauge discription, but the dummy seller took the keys with him after the car didn't sell when auctioned and I only found out about it after the fact when he is not in town so I could fire it up in person. Bottom line is if I can buy the car for the right price, what would that be? I'm thinking worse case it'd need an entire motor, but I have a fellow Iowa enthusiast that has one I could buy for $1000 I believe and then I'd have another $750 for install and the cam welding on that motor. I guess I am curious as what to pay and what to do to verify the engine is beyond repair. Also, what about the tranny? Sorry for the rehashing of likely talked about info, but I'm in a time crunch (have to try and strike a deal by tomm) and my search yielded too much info for me to look through right now. Any info would be great! Thanks all, hope I can maybe get lucky and get a deal on the last generation of these intriguing cars



Adam

 

[ACV1081]

Well, bought the car for $1200... let the flaming and name calling begin. I can only hope you all can help me decipher the cause of the problems and get it welded up and saved for a reasonable amount. Never would have thoght the owner would bite (asking $2500 initially), but he didn't want to have to haul the car back and maybe knows it's a dead soldier who knows. Specifics on the car: it starts and will run, but sure doesn't want to. Interior aside from being dirty is nice, has tape deck with cd changer in trunk (mach audio), has a moonroof, and 115K. Could be a heck of a buy, could be in for a bath huh? Let the learning begin

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Too bad you rushed into that one so fast. That's an $800 car on its best day, and there are so many cam failure cars out there lately that you probably could have found an equal one for even less than that.

The car needs a motor. Cam welding is a preventative service, not a repair service. Basically, once a cam has failed, it's failed. The pistons have impacted valves. The extent of the damage can't be known until the motor is pulled, torn down, and examined. It's about 50/50 whether the motor can be rebuilt. A lot depends on if any valves broke off, etc.

The V8 tranny is usually an 80K-100K tranny at best. At the miles you're at, we usually recommend a tranny change at the same time as the motor swap since it doesn't add to the labor charge (the whole thing is out of the car anyway), and especially on a car that you've never driven, there's really no way to know the condition of the tranny, and putting a bad tranny back in a car with a new motor can be really frustrating.

 

[ACV1081]

OK, well I guess I should say too that I've parted out 24 SHOs (all 89-95) and never came across a single gen 3 during my dismantling days. I don't doubt the 96-99's are starting to fail as mileage racks up, but I don't feel as though $400 is too far off your $800 when the car was in my backyard and I didn't have to spend any money or time to get it here from out of town or out of state. Not being defensive, just being more clear. Also, is the engine not wanting to run a for sure sign the damage is done? I asked on how to diagnose the cam failure, not whether or not it was a prevenative measure and that this car for sure had a cam seperated. That being said, give me some more insight into my situation. Thanks



Adam

 

[99V8SHO]

The only real way to find out if the cams have failed is to rip into the heads and examine the cams. Getting to the cams is a chore, especialy for those who have not doen it before. My best advice is take it to someone who knows what they are doing when it comes to the V8. I would be VERY careful starting it up, because if a cam is slipping, you will only make damage worse if there already is damage.

 

[ACV1081]

The only real way to find out if the cams have failed is to rip into the heads and examine the cams. Getting to the cams is a chore, especialy for those who have not doen it before. My best advice is take it to someone who knows what they are doing when it comes to the V8. I would be VERY careful starting it up, because if a cam is slipping, you will only make damage worse if there already is damage.

How would this compare to say the valve lash on a v6 SHO motor? I am not saying it'd be easy for me to diagnose given the fact I've never dabbled with the v8, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that I could handle it either. As for evaluating the current problem, what kind of sounds/noises are telltale of a cam failure? I don't want to put the cart before the horse.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

The V8 motor will run "ok" on 5, 6, or 7 cylinders. Once it gets to 4 after a cam failure, it won't idle and sounds like a$$. I can hear a cam failure car within 2 seconds of it firing. Valves hitting pistons is not a pleasant noise, and IMHO is unmistakable. Each time you start the engine you're risking even more damage, taking a rebuildable motor to beyond repair in many cases.

The easiest way to verify a cam failure is to run a compression test. Naturally the front bank is easier to get to, so test that first. Rear you've gotta pull the surge tank to get the coils and plugs out. No compression in any cylinder is telling you time for a new motor.

 

[Shoman594]

Adam, Welcome to the dark side!!!!!!!!!!

rip that top end off and see whats going on inside! It will be a bear to do it the first time but after that its a sinch!

Good luck! and let us know what you find.

 

[ACV1081]

Adam, Welcome to the dark side!!!!!!!!!!

rip that top end off and see whats going on inside! It will be a bear to do it the first time but after that its a sinch!

Good luck! and let us know what you find.

Ryan, I don't even know if I'm going to bother tearing the top side apart... talked to the fellow Iowa guy and he has a motor that is welded and ready to go... I'll likely swap it in, check the tranny out while we're in the vacinity, and just find out later what problems the motor that is in there has. Clean the sucker up and hopefully have it on the road for $2500-3000 which is cheap enough to see what these v8's are all about IMO And the SHO saga continues



Adam

 

[99V8SHO]

Definately keep us posted.

 

[SHOWHAT9]

OK, I am a pretty knowledgeable gen 1/2 owner who is a do-it-yourself type and just recently lost my 93 ATX in an accident in June. A local insurance auction has a relatively nice 97 115K SHO black/tan for sale with engine problems. The car does not stay running and the owner claims the car needs (needed ) the cams welded. I know this is a vauge discription, but the dummy seller took the keys with him after the car didn't sell when auctioned and I only found out about it after the fact when he is not in town so I could fire it up in person. Bottom line is if I can buy the car for the right price, what would that be? I'm thinking worse case it'd need an entire motor, but I have a fellow Iowa enthusiast that has one I could buy for $1000 I believe and then I'd have another $750 for install and the cam welding on that motor. I guess I am curious as what to pay and what to do to verify the engine is beyond repair. Also, what about the tranny? Sorry for the rehashing of likely talked about info, but I'm in a time crunch (have to try and strike a deal by tomm) and my search yielded too much info for me to look through right now. Any info would be great! Thanks all, hope I can maybe get lucky and get a deal on the last generation of these intriguing cars



Adam

Simple. get real comfortable with www.v8sho.com. Use the google search feature on the banner page and giterdone! Welcome to a different breed.

 

[Sho_Freak]

jeez adam, sounds like ur gonna be busy for a while. wahts with soem of the iowa guys and getting gen 3's, i now know 5 guys with one..... hey if u ever need help im only about 15-20 minutes away, so call me if u need any help.(319-269-7838) id like to meet ya for the first time. i met one guy that knows u that drives a alero with a bunch of stuff done to it, i think his name was kyle.

later
Adam M

 

[91 SHOplus]

There was a sound clip of a cam failure car that I heard where it sounded like a deisel. It had that rattley sound to it. I think it was posted on the v8sho.com site

 

[V6&V8SHO]

Isnt there a expensive set of wires behind the motor that can get fried and cause similar problems?

 

[Firespirit]

This is just a wild shot.. but maybe it's the coils?