New Paint Job

[Marccus]

My car was vandalized.

Someone or several people took a knife of something and dragged it along the entire body everywhere, scratching the paint everywhere.

I own an '89, black, 268K, original paint, looks (looked) mint - I use a car cover.

This is the fourth incident. The first was deflecting rocks off my back while I waxed it, the second was urine on my moon roof sliding pad that further dripped on my seat, the third was dog excrement under the door handle so when I lifted up the handle my fingers submerged themselves in it. And now this.

I'm in a politically hot area and someone or several people don't like my bumper sticker. I don't want to get into politics, but I refuse to relinquish my right to free speech by giving into these people.

But I need new paint job, even though I have to find out who did this first and stop them.

But that's a job for me, my brother, and my cousins to solve.

Sorry for the rant ...


I know nothing about paint jobs.

Can someone knowledgeable about this describe the choices and cost of a new paint job as one starts at the 1 day job ($200??) to a full custom job?

I am only interested in repainting it black again.

What is a "good" price point to stop at where going any further in quality, number of coats, etc., really doesn't do much?

Are all new paint jobs clear coat based?

Can you go with just the original acrylic lacquer and have a finish just as good as polyurethane?

Aadvantages/disadvantages of different types - lacquer, enamel, etc. (if these even exist as options).

If I really worked on my original paint (compounding, swirl remover, etc. (I use the 3m system), I could get an awesome wet look shine without clear coat.

Many thanks to all.

Now it's off to buy a kevlar bulletproof vest, night vision goggles, camaflauge paint, black outerwear and boots, and a stalking point to observe who is terrorizing me.

Trained in undercover infiltration techniques a loooooong time ago, with a good sneak attack and a roll of duct tape, I can pretty much "wrap" up the problem.

I do have a friend at FedEx so I may decide to "mail" them to another country and when the boxes are opened and the duct tape removed, the ones inside can decide how they are going to get back to the U.S.

 

[MattyMac1]

Hmmmm...UHHHHHH. Dude I would probably save the money on that paint job and go straight to the Home/Rentals in the Newspaper and get the **** out of where ever you are living..I'd spend the money on a new first/last and deposite.Priorities my friend..I'd look into a good Physco therapist too.Paranoia is nothing to fool around with.. eek! Doh!!!!!!!!

 

[jthomas68]

Pride is pride,but that is just not smart to have to go thru all of this for a bumper sticker.On that note,why would anyone put a bumper sticker on a car anyway?

 

[MattyMac1]

Cover up cracks and dings on your bumper.It's cheaper than repainting. I would never put a sticker on a SHO though.hehehehehehe

 

[Modemagic]

Wow bro, sounds like you live in a "******" neighborhood. That'd "****" me off too. Sorry, but I had to take the puns.

Depending on your paint, you may just get away with a new clearcoat and wetsand on it, but I doubt it. Paint is something that you'll get exactly what you pay for, remember this. Remember Earl Schieb... he'll paint anything for 99.99, including your tires, windshield, headlights, etc. Since your going to repaint it the same color, you definately won't need a full stripdown which will save you a fortune. It might be wise to go ahead and have them eliminate the dents while your there and they'll block it down and make the lines straight. The secret to a good paint job is in the prepwork and postwork. Expect to pay at least a grand or so for a decent job, depending on your area. Also, keep in mind that alot of the hotrods out there, for example when I had my Lowrider painted, it was a couple thousand including the small bodywork I had done. An old guy down the block dropped over $10,000 in painting his '34 chopped and shaved Ford. But they stripped it down to a frame and body and painted it, then put it all back together. His is a Best of show paint winner done by a well-known painter here in the midwest. That's the difference in what you pay.

I gotta say it though, before you invest in paint, you have to do something about the source of your paint issues, i.e. the vandals. Build a garage or peel the sticker bro. I don't really think anything that anyone has to say is worth that much headache and heartbreak.

 

[Bryan C. King]

What does the sticker say???

 

[Marccus]

Thanks to all.

Now I have a good idea of what to pay for a decent paint job.

But did I read correctly?

$10,000 for a paint job?

How can you even drive the thing!

I noticed a lot of responses from Massachusetts. I was born and raised there and stayed for 35 years.

Still miss the Red Sox - just want them to win a world series before I die.

I don't want to get into politics. Everyone has their choices and opinions and this isn't the place to discuss them.

Why did I put a bumper sticker on my car?

In my entire life, I never did or would do that.

But after the 2000 election, enough was enough.

I've had the same problems with peeling paint on my bumpers and have done some touch up to at least make them look half as good as the panels of the car.

But I was going to have the front and rear bumpers done, so I bumper sticker didn't bother me. I figured in the next year or two I'd have that done .... and then 2004 would roll along and I wouldn't put a bumper sticker on a new paint job.

I have two stickers, actually.

My original Gore-Lieberman sticker on the right and a "G.W.Bush - How dumb is TOO dumb on the left". I've seen ones about Bush that are a LOT more "colorful" and verbal.

I've also seen all kinds during the Clinton years: "**** Clinton", "Clinton didn't inhale, but Monica swallowed", "MY gun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car", .. and on and on.

My or any other person's right to free speech should not be subordinate to someone else's right of opnion.

I refuse to give up that right because someone else believes he has the right to commit criminal acts to suppress my rights.

Before 911, I always was of the opinion that you should stand up for what is right and try to stop what is wrong. Police would always say "Don't become involved, let us take care of it". Or if someone tailgates you or drives in a away to endanger you on the freeway, just ignore them.

Well that's wrong. If someone is committing a motor vehicle violation that puts you or others in danger, by ignoring it you just encourage it.

When people believe there are no consequences to their actions, they will do what they want and you just have anarchy.

Ever notice what happens when you are on the highway and all **** is breaking loose with speeding, being cut off, tailgating .... and ... then a police car shows up?

Gee ... every one starts driving really nice ... until ... the cop takes an exit ramp and pulls off the highway .. then it's back to chaos.

Now after 911, we are told to "get involved", like the brave group of passengers on flight 93 in Pennsylvania who tried to stop the terrorists.

It's no longer "Just do exactly what they say ... and we'll (the police) handle the confrontation".

Well I never lived that way and now we are told that we shouldn't live that way.

I'm not paranoid or an aggressive person by all means. I've never been in any kind of trouble my entire life. (Well ... OK... the normal stuff when you are a kid ... slingshots, pumpkin smashing, snowball fights .. you know ... a few fist fights with the bully here and there).

But I did grow up in a neighborhood where some people will only learn the old fashioned way.

Why should I let some wacko believe that what HE wants is right and he has the right to stop what I have to say - when, what I have to say, is perfectly legal and PROTECTED by the law.

I believe in fairness and justice. And what has happened to me is not fair, just or legal.

'Nuff said.

Besides I love my SHO.

Now it's personal!

All the best ..... or maybe ...

See you in the afterlife ...

 

[EHBOY]

Ummm... thumb

 

[Toneboski]

sorry to hear about the harassment. Paint job, a decent one for the same color, upwards of $1000. I know what you mean about being frustrated when you want to take things into your own hands. You sound like a pretty educated guy, just don't get yourself into trouble that would land you a record my friend. I always want to crack somebody over the head but I dont want to risk getting thrown out of school or getting a record taht could affect job interviews. If your not worried about it, do him Boondock Saints style. That will be a little touch of Boston.

 

[Petersho1]

I feel sorry for You. What a dumb ******* !!!!!

 

[89 Gary]

Marccus Marrcus Marcuss--you see,it's like this,you decided to call OUR president dumb,one who I voted for. You are trying to get a reaction out of people who are plain tired of anti this and anti that. How about you suck it up and realize that all those hero's who aren't coming home ever again except in a box wouldn't want whiners like yourself jamming it other peoples faces. Say what you wish but when you call Mr. Bush dumb-well,you deserve it.It's not the DUMB part,it's just the part where some people hate whiners.Sorry for the reality check. Now wait for the other whiners to respond. thumb

 

[Marccus]

My decision to post a sticker that calls Bush "dumb" is based on my opinion after listening to the man and educating myself on his educational background, his professional business career, and his actions while at TANG (Texas Air National Guard).

It is only that - an opinion. There is no intention to incite action from anyone else. It has the same language as satire, caricatures, essays, etc., that fill the print media, airways, and talk forums.

That opinion is protected by the 1st Amendment and it is that same protection and respect that I give to anyone calling Clinton a liar, Kennedy a drunk, a liberal a bleeding heart, the Pope a child persecutor, etc.

I have no right to take illegal actions against any individual who expresses those views. I do have the right to diagree with those views and to promulgate my own.

I have no disrespect for the military who have served and serve in wars I don't support or believe are illegal under international law or waged based on fabricated evidence or unproveable evidence.

I have no intention of whining about that which doesn't please me or I don't agree with.

I have every intention of expressing my views, however strong I feel within the protection of the law, and to do everything I can to educate people on my views in the hope they may consider them.

When I was nine years old, my brother came home from Vietnam in a box. When he was away, I kept asking my parents when he was coming back and I wrote him to tell him that I missed playing baseball in the backyard. I never played baseball with him again and I have missed him ever since.

He died with a man whose brother was my age. I got to know this man's brother after the grenade that landed near my bother and his brother exploded as the two of them both dove to grab it and throw it out of the foxhole. I did get to play baseball with the man's brother after that.

I have not and never will call a veteran of Vietnam a baby killer. I have not and never will spit on a person in the military. I have not and never will sit on or burn the American flag.

But I support the right for people to express their views as defined by the Supreme Court - that speech is protected unless it incites, directs, or commands hatred and illegal activity.

Burning the American flag is protected. Burning the American flag at a protest in public is not. Such activity incites rage, hatred, anger and illegal activity - all **** and disorder are going to break out.

Burning a cross in your backyard is protected. Burning a cross in view of the public in your front yard or while walking in a protest is not.

In closing let my just quote Theodore Roosevelt on his definition of Patritoism:

PATRIOTISM:
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and serville, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
- Theodore Roosevelt.

To do other than Roosevelt says, is exactly how 99% of the population of German "patriots" supported Adolph ****** when he told them he had to conquer Germany's enemies like Hungary, Poland, etc. and that he had to exterminate a race of people to save mankind.

Fifty years later, everyone student of history realizes that the true patriots of Germany were the 1% - the resistance fighters who helped the **** excape and opposed ******; most of whom died for their actions.

Perhaps if Roosevelt's definition of patriotism were in place in the late years of the 1700's and the early years of the 1800's, five to seven million Native American Indians would not have been wiped off the face of the land that was eventually to become the entire United States.

But that's a entirely different story - America's own holocaust.

Now I really mean it

'Nuff said!

How about a joke in closing about my nationality even!

What color are pants of the Italian Military.

They are two tone - yellow in the groin area and brown in the buttocks.

----

Poland told NASA that they were going to send a manned spacecraft to the sun and asked for some technical advice.

NASA told them that they would burn up if they ever tried to land on the sun. But the Polish responded "Well, of course, we know that. That is only during the day. We intend to land at night."

 

[Markus]

Marccus:

But I support the right for people to express their views as defined by the Supreme Court - that speech is protected unless it incites, directs, or commands hatred and illegal activity.

Does not your view, as expressed via your bumper sticker, cause just this? Your car was vandalized. Is this not illegal?

 

[Don likes SHO]

Politics Aside, I am gearing up to repaint my black SHO and have decided on Acrylic Enamel. I don't think the factory used Laquer in '90. Laquer is real soft, enamel is far superior.

Urethane based paint is another term for base/clear coating and is usually the choice for repainting cars nowadays because its chemically less hazardous, higher gloss, and has more potential for trick effects like color changing etc.

But when you are repainting a black SHO black Acrylic Enamel will save you some money and give high gloss.

After buying flex agent for the plastic parts, high gloss hardener, 1 gallon of Acrylic Enamel, reducer, wax remover, a spray can of primer for repaired areas, and sandpaper my bill for materials around here is just under $200. Combine ~4 long days of work and you're back in black.

 

[30footSHO]

Markus- don't you start now. Read his whole post.

Dave

 

[Levand16]

Don likes SHO:
Politics Aside, I am gearing up to repaint my black SHO and have decided on Acrylic Enamel. I don't think the factory used Laquer in '90. Laquer is real soft, enamel is far superior.

Urethane based paint is another term for base/clear coating and is usually the choice for repainting cars nowadays because its chemically less hazardous, higher gloss, and has more potential for trick effects like color changing etc.

But when you are repainting a black SHO black Acrylic Enamel will save you some money and give high gloss.

After buying flex agent for the plastic parts, high gloss hardener, 1 gallon of Acrylic Enamel, reducer, wax remover, a spray can of primer for repaired areas, and sandpaper my bill for materials around here is just under $200. Combine ~4 long days of work and you're back in black.

Who told you in 90 the car came with Laquer paint? Run like a bat outta **** from that place... Laquer paint has not been used for many many years (I'm talking like 50's). The factory color on a 90 black SHO or anyother tauri for that matter is a basecoat/clearcoat system. IMO the BC/CC system is the best paint system to use (and the only system being used on ALL new cars). Sure it takes alittle more time to spary and it's a little harder to spary it right but it's well worth the extra time!

BTW- Enamel will give a very high gloss but it will not last nearly as long as the basecoat/clearcoat. The clearcoat acts as a sunblock (for lack of a better term) therefor it takes longer for the black colorcoat (basecoat) it fade than it would in a single stage enamel paint job!

<small>[ April 15, 2003, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: Levand16 ]</small>

 

[Marccus]

The touchup paint I purchased for my '89 Ford from the Ford dealership says it is "acrylic lacquer", not enamel or acrylic enamel. So I assumed that the original paint (which has no clearcoat) was acrylic lacquer, but maybe not.

I also matched the color code of Ford with Dupli-color and Plast-Kote at Pep Boys. Plasti-Kote has a bottle of liquid paint to brush on and a spray paint that both match the Ford color.

The spray paint can says the solvents are toluene, xylene, and acetone. Wouldn't that indicate that the paint was lacquer based? I haven't checked out the solvents in the small touch-up bottle.

There is an excellent article on how to fix paint chips at carcareonline.com. This guy has some excellent products and his instructions for taking care of cars is unmatched by anyone I have read.

If you take the time and are patient you will get a repair that is just about invisible to the ***** eye. Pretty amazing when I followed his directions.

But now all that work has gone to waste as my paint is trashed. Oh well ....

I've used almost all the products on his site and if you want some advice just ask. I do believe the 3m system is the best out of all of them for removing all scratches, swirls, and getting a show quality shine.

As an aside, the reason fixing chips is so difficult is that the touchup paint is MUCH too thick - mainly from the fact that it sits around on the shelves too long and the solvent evaporates. You have to thin it A LOT with lacquer RETARDER, not thinner, so that it flows like water. Then it takes eight to twelve applications to fill the hole of the chip so you can sand it level with the paint.

Retarder is used to slow down the drying process which is why those piano finishes (nitrocellulose lacquer) you see on nice Italian speakers or Steinway pianos are so difficult to apply. They pretty much dry the instant they hit the finish. But you can work quickly which cuts down on costs - you know - money first, quality last.

I do paint my engine components with Hirsch Engine Enamel which is actually made by Randolp Products who makes many paints and products for the aviation industry. Jet engines are painted with Randolph engine enamel (good to 600F) and the stuff gives a gloss that is out of this world and hard as rock. You have to reduce this stuff by up to 50% with enamel RETARDER, not thinner. Otherwise, by the time you finish one brush stroke, the paint has set up and you can't go back over it! If you add enough retarder, the finish will have no brushstrokes.

Also try the high temperature exhaust manifold paints (good to 1800F). I've painted my headers and heat shields with the space age aluminum color.

So if you are interested in painting some of your comnponents (water pump, timing belt cover, oil pan) as you need to replace them, check out the colors at Hirsch or Randolph where you can get all those crazy colors of the 30's to the 70's - Ford Blue, Chevy Orange, etc.

And another discovery, I've found that the products to take care of my car are better in the marine industry and the aviation industry. The solvents, cleaners, waxes, paints, hardware, fittings, hoses, clamps, heat insulation ..... and on and on .... are made to higher quality standards. Especially the airline industry where everything is tested to the **** degree.

Did you know that Simple Green was discontinued for use in the airline industry? The airline maintenance personnel discovered that the product was giving a discoloration to the aluminum and deteriorating it, no matter how well it was rinsed. So the FAA discontinued its use by the airlines. EVERYTHING has to be anally aproved by the FAA - even the polishes used on the aluminum skin and fuselages of the planes.
.
.
.
.
.

Sorry I got off track as usual.

But I'll try to actually find out what type of my paint my '89 was painted with. But I'll probably go with the best type that is used now for cars (withing economic limits).

Thanks.

BTW, what is the minimal equipment, removal of items on the car, and working environmnent that is necessary for me to paint the car myself. I don't think I have the facilities to do this but I am curious.

How much can you save by letting someone else do it (not charging yourself for labor, just materials).?

For example, if you can have it painted for $1000, does that mean you could probably do it yourself for $*** ($500?), assuming I would have to RENT or BUY any necessary equipment.

Later .....

 

[Levand16]

The little cans made for touch ups are not the same type of paint that is on your car from the factory. Your 89 SHO should have a basecoat/clearcoat paint job from the factory. Single stage paint jobs have not been used in many many years. Just because the paint is a flat color or is faded doesn't mean it doesn't have a clearcoat, there is a type of clearcoat that is not glossy (I don't know if ford ever used that product or not, but I do know that black gen 1's were basecoat/clearcoat)

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

Levand16:
Your 89 SHO should have a basecoat/clearcoat paint job from the factory.

I beleive that the only color offered in '89 that came with a clear coat was titanium. I know mine has one... my mirror is shedding

 

[srfdude]

"G.W.Bush - How dumb is TOO dumb on the left".

For all your "reluctance" to say what your bumper stickers are, it didn't take much for you to start pontificating. Better you had kept your silence, although I agree you have your right to your opinions. When you get an undergraduate degree from Yale and a masters from Harvard, then you may be qualified to call GWB "Dumb", otherwise, just a yokel spouting off........
Mike