BlueSHO
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Nannies
- Thread starter Druseph T. Justice
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Druseph T. Justice
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It seems that it can be disabled. But anybody that knows how, and is able, is too afraid of Johnny law to actually do it.
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For the every day end user in the PP versions you could hold your foot on the brake and hold the TC button for 5 seconds and it would turn Advance Trac off. This cannot be done in the non-PP versions.
I remember reading from Livernois that it doesn't actually DISABLE Advance Trac, it just severely "dims" it. It brings up a question in my mind about the legalities they keep mentioning. They say it's illegal to disable safety features like Advance Trac and the speed limiter. However, it's not illegal and they're ok with changing the speed limiter up to some absurd number like 250 mph. Why not do the same with Advance Trac? Why not do what the factory does on PP and "dim" Advance Trac?
Those two things are not the same, and to suggest that they are is not fair. That is just a cheap shot at that point. We do what we know to be legal and have proven to be safe with regards to the tq mgt and stability systems.
I don't see it as a shot at all, I'm simply trying to understand. It's not like I'm saying do something illegal. All I'm saying is that it's legal for a factory Ford Taurus SHO to dumb down the Advance Trac system in the PP packages and you say you have access to it but don't disable it for legal reasons. All I'm asking is why can you not dumb down the Advance Trac system just like they legally allow from the factory? I don't see how dumbing down Advance Trac would be any more/less legal than increasing the speed limiter to an absurd number.
In your view why are they not the same? They are both there for safety on public roads. But the difference in my mind is that the end user can legally dumb down Advance Trac from the factory and they cannot raise the speed limiter. So I don't see where it's not fair to ask why you have no legal/moral objections to raising one but have a legal/moral objection to dumb down the other to what's legally allowed from the factory. Obviously it's proven to be safe if it's available from the factory in some versions.
It is not something that the performance aftermarket is able to do, that simple. There is no room for misunderstanding or grey area on our end.
As for the limiter, there just needs to be one.
We already offer the best tuning and parts support in the industry, and will continue to do so. We will take an inch where we can, and steer clear of the areas that we know trouble lies.
As for the limiter, there just needs to be one.
We already offer the best tuning and parts support in the industry, and will continue to do so. We will take an inch where we can, and steer clear of the areas that we know trouble lies.
Druseph T. Justice
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I think because it's a fairly new legality, that it's still kind of hard to get away with.
I hope that some day it will be relaxed a bit. Like removing catalytic converters. I've had many plugged cats removed and replaced with just pipe by professional licensed shops. It's always the same "well, legally, we can't remove your cat, but we will. Just don't tell anybody it was us."
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Barry Raymond
Member
Could it be that Advanced Trac is not able to be completely turned off because the car needs it to be stable? Perhaps the SHO without Advanced Trac is an inherently unstable design and it takes a computer constantly fiddling with the AWD system to keep it between the ditches.
With regards to emissions, I would be careful removing stuff thats needed. My car needs to pass emissions testing once a year and I live in Texas. It won't be more than 5 years before the rest of the country has this requirement as well.
Druseph T. Justice
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I highly doubt it's inherently unstable. If the wheels are aligned there should be no instability. The closest one might find to an inherently unstable vehicle would be maybe an old truck with worn out bushings, steering and suspension components. And plenty of people drive vehicles like that every day with no computer aids and bald tires. Not saying it's as safe as having it by any means, just that it can be done. Piloting thousands of pounds of steel at 60mph is inherently dangerous. And I feel like the government stepping in every couple of years or so and implementing safety requirements will never eliminate motoring accidents, injuries or fatalities. This thread is about being able to disable features on a closed course or somewhere that you would only be risking your own safety. And I don't see why we should not be able to do that. Especially since it is a factory option in PP cars.
Michigan has no emissions testing. And I think it will be difficult to implement emissions testing in most rural areas. I'd say 90-95% of vehicles where I live would fail the h3!! Out of emissions testing, an if they did fail they would just keep driving illegally anyway. One police officer for nearly 200 square miles is never going to catch and stop everyone, nor is that one officer seen as a real risk of being caught. Removing cats around here is common practice, for people with low income it's a choice between hundreds of dollars for a new cat or like ten bucks for a piece of pipe.
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For the first paragraph that might make sense if Ford didn't give a factory option in the PP SHO to turn off Advance Trac. I think it would be a stretch to say there's enough difference between PP and non-PP that one is stable and the other is not.
For the second paragraph, the EPA is already trying to address the emissions issues with their latest proposal.
2011TAURUSSEL
2014 SHO LMS Stage 1 V10
The drivers will be illegal its all right, POTUS will step in and waive the fees, or Jerry Brown Jr. will say that the low income people will get amnesty and fine reductions funded by the middle class. Doesn't make it right just the liberal agenda....make the middle class pay for as much as they can.
Rant complete! To a certain point I can support emissions testing, yes there is a financial incentive but I am good with clean air. Anyone that wants to act like an idiot and endanger themselves on a closed course and be an ORGAN donor FINE....Darwin's waiting room on the left. I do however have problem with people endangering others, police chases, high speed runs, motorcycles splitting lanes, driving on he shoulder etc....
Rant complete! To a certain point I can support emissions testing, yes there is a financial incentive but I am good with clean air. Anyone that wants to act like an idiot and endanger themselves on a closed course and be an ORGAN donor FINE....Darwin's waiting room on the left. I do however have problem with people endangering others, police chases, high speed runs, motorcycles splitting lanes, driving on he shoulder etc....
Druseph T. Justice
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I'm all for emissions control too. Just trying to point out that some government vehicle standards are kind of overlooked by officials, and hoping all this required stability control stuff becomes one of them.
So... Where does advance trac and stability control come into this? People will still joy ride, run from cops and drive down the shoulder stability control or not.
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darth maalhd
New Member
Can't have any fun in my 2011 non pp, it reminds me of a Volvo safe but a least it's quick
Druseph T. Justice
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Exactly. Not looking to go tearing up city streets. Just want to slide the @$$ end out a little once in a while.
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SHO_Enuff
New Member
Maybe you should think about getting a RWD sports car.
What if it is just numb to the point that it allows for ~70% of what you ask the car to do? What if the indicator light does not offer anything more than a visual placebo?
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Simply a question...if having the unilateral ability to "turn off" the stability systems at will yell at Ford. Like I explained earlier, we will expound upon the areas where we are allowed and avoid the areas where we are not allowed. It is not a question of our ability, it is simply about what is allowed or not.
Simply a question...if having the unilateral ability to "turn off" the stability systems at will yell at Ford. Like I explained earlier, we will expound upon the areas where we are allowed and avoid the areas where we are not allowed. It is not a question of our ability, it is simply about what is allowed or not.
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