Merkur XR4ti - SHO V8 swap?

[Sirnose]

Ok, I've been wanting to do something rear wheel drive with the SHO V8 so I just picked up a clean, rust free 5 speed Merkur XR4ti with no motor. The goal is a free revving, 400 whp street car - something smaller and even quicker than my supercharged Jag.

Other options are a 4.6 modular V8 (a swap "kit" is available for the XR4ti) which is an easy route to 300 hp but it's wider than the SHO V8. Or a turbo Duratec V6 - a la Noble - which has also been done in the XR4ti.

So I hit the local parts yards today but no SHO V8s. I did find a '95 3.2 SHO V6 that was complete but I'm still leaning towards the V8. Found a few Lincoln Mark VIIIs with the aluminum block 4.6 plus their rear diffs can be swapped into the XR4ti giving more gear options. But no Lincoln LS V6s.

I do have a line on a local SHO V8 with failed cam(s). And I've read the cam failure threads and the general advice is it's not worth rebuilding but what is the general cost of repair if the pistons haven't been nicked? Copper head gaskets would be on the list as part of the plan for forced induction but, besides head gaskets, what else is no longer available? And what special tools are needed?

And what is the value of a cam failed SHO V8 vs the going rate for a complete, running engine with/without welded cams? Right now there aren't any running cars locallly for sale at a price I'm willing to pay plus I don't have the room for another chassis to sit around while I pull parts.

So any advice is appreciated. Even the voice of reason.

 

[jedhead]

I recall seeing a XR4ti with a v6 SHO motor installed. I also have seen one with a Nissan twin turbo from 300ZX boosted to 500hp.

Bob

 

[SuperHO]

FWIW, the SHO V8 is not known for it's forced induction compatibility. as far as i know, there's only 3 supercharged ones in operation, and i don't know if that nut job from St Louis got his turbo one up and running yet. the biggest problem is that the block itself is pretty much as built as it's design will allow. for the power numbers you're looking for, custom pistons would likely be necessary as well. i'm not saying it can't be done...i'm just saying there're more cost effective methods of making a disturbing XR.

 

[Off Road SHO]

Sir Nose,

Where are you at in AZ? I have two of the xr's and a bunch of engines on stands.

The 4.6 came with 3 different bell housing patterns if I remember correctly, one of which will only work in the front wheel drive config. I have one of those from a Continental with the 4 valve heads. We should talk.

Tom

 

[venom]

I recall seeing a XR4ti with a v6 SHO motor installed. I also have seen one with a Nissan twin turbo from 300ZX boosted to 500hp.

Bob

Lemme dig up a picture or three if I can find it...

There was a Twin Turbo 3.2 SHO V6 in an XR4 at Carlisle in 2004 or 2005.

I remember the setup well. Wolf 3D EFI system, using late 90's Nissan Maxima Coil on plug coils atop each plug and of course an entirely custom intake. Don't know any details about any internals but I believe power was upper 300's.

I agree the V8 SHO motor while it is a great motor (sans cams) NA - the lack of correct wheel drive transmission choices and the price to monkey with internals make me think you'd want to look elsewhere, but if you want something truly unique than yes the SHO V8 would be one way to help ensure that...

Now if a slushbox is okay for the tranny.... What about a little hopping up to a Lincoln LS V8 drive line - those cars can be had for cheap and would include a tranny that mates right up, granted I am trying to stay in the modern Ford family to stay somewhat true to the XR4 so other nameplates may make a good power plant option but I couldn't endorse that .


Found the pic of the Twin turbo setup, and it was in my 2005 Carlisle folder:
http://www.venom.org/shofiles/carlisle_2005/cars/PICT0062.JPG

 

[luigisho]

Is that the same one that had the yellow and green color scheme with the original SHO intake? That green looks familiar.

 

[venom]

Is that the same one that had the yellow and green color scheme with the original SHO intake? That green looks familiar.

Dunno - that was the first time I had ever been to Carlisle. Been wanting to get back but haven't made another one either.

 

[Sirnose]

Hey Tom, I'm in the PV Mall area but I'm all over the valley all week long and would love to see what you've got at the shop. Are your XRs drivers or parts cars? And from your experience with the cars, what would you recommend?


The Duratec V6 leaves a lot more room to work with and looking at this engine bay it seems a force fed V8 would be even more difficult to service:

http://www.merkurtech.com/merkurtec...kurtech/picturepages/images/dg30engine018.jpg

I haven't seen dyno numbers for any of the supercharged SHO V8s, anybody heard what they've put out?

 

[Off Road SHO]

Sirnose,

Wednsday evening would be good for me; wife will be out partying with all the neighborhood girls.

I have a brand new, complete, Duratec 3.0 V-6 still in the engine shipping cradle from Ford, in case you want to start with something new. The 4.6 twin cam is a wrecking yard motor of unknown lineage.

I just traded one of my XR's to my son for a convertible Fox body Mustang that needs a tranny. The other XR was a 300.00 Craigslist find that had a bad motor in it; only 3 of the 4 pistons would move while cranking, not a good sign. I put my fully rebuilt XR 2.3 in it but have decided that it is not worth my rebuilt motor, so I am pulling that 2.3 out and selling it without a motor.

PM me your phone number and we can talk.

Tom

 

[E1 v2]

Dear nose -
I've got one of those supercharged V8 SHO drivetrains on a stand right now building a M 112 upgrade for it. But when I'm done it will STILL be wrong wheel drive.

I've heard of MANY folks who've stuck a 5.0 in a Merkur. Why would you want a wimpy 3.4 bastard child in there?
I understand following your own drummer, can't tell you how many folks told me it was impossible to put a roots supercharger in a V8 SHO. But that is still easier than putting a 5.0 in a Gen 3 SHO. Why don't you want to put a 5.0 into your Merkur?

 

[St Louis SHO]

I'm still plugging away at my car. The reason there isnt many FI V8's is because nobody worth a **** at tuning ***** with the V8's. Eric, sorry, but your car is mail order tuned. Which mine will be too. Until someone breaks the binary codes, the V8 guys are just hosed. I'm working on this. I know of a gentleman who can break the binary, its just a matter of will he do it....

- James

 

[E1 v2]

Eric, sorry, but your car is mail order tuned.
- James

Errr - no.

My car has been to Atlanta and touched directly by Doug Lewis and plugged straight into his computer. It was my fault that it had a bad coil at the time, but no mail order business was in action while my car was under his roof.

****'s cars' program actually SAYS 'SHO R T S' for a reason - we developed that program hands on and he benefited from it.

Doug IS "Worth a ****, IMNSHO." And those that have followed, and BORROWED from him, would do well to give credit where credit is due.

I've been begged to open a Gen 3 SHO repair facility by many folks over the years, but I just won't do it because of the limited environment - too few cars to make a living. I enjoy my hobbiest status and appreciate the **** out of anyone brave enough to try to take on working on these critters for a living, yourself included, Sir.

We'll all keep playing, it's NOT rocket science. One day we'll crack all the codes.

 

[St Louis SHO]

So, thats why you had to dyno it yourself for HP numbers? Cmon, I wasnt trying to take a stab at you dude. I'm not in the mood for this shit. I was stating a fact, because if it were dyno tuned, it would have made more power than what it did.

 

[Sirnose]

Venom - the Lincoln 3.9 is essentially the same as my 4.0 Jag - timing chain guides, tensioners, etc. for the Lincoln are the cheaper way of getting parts instead of from the Jag dealers. And it would save me duplicating special tools for working on my Jag so I haven't ruled it out.

The 5.0 or the original 2.3 turbo are probably the cheapest routes to the power range I want and I found 2 turbo T-birds in the yards yesterday. But since the original engine isn't there anymore I want to update it to somethng like today's SHO twin turbo V6.

Eric, what does it take budget wise to get the SHO V8 set up and tuned for supercharging? And what would you ball park for R&R of the heads just to look over the pistons & cylinders? I read an older thread saying $1200 just for full gasket sets - is that anywhere close to accurate?

 

[firebat45]

I'm still plugging away at my car. The reason there isnt many FI V8's is because nobody worth a **** at tuning ***** with the V8's. Eric, sorry, but your car is mail order tuned. Which mine will be too. Until someone breaks the binary codes, the V8 guys are just hosed. I'm working on this. I know of a gentleman who can break the binary, its just a matter of will he do it....

- James

Or until someone finally gets a standalone such as Megasquirt running on one. Tune all you want then, and it's not that difficult to setup.

 

[SuperHO]

if you wanna be REALLY unique, drop a 429 Cobra Jet in it...just a thought...

 

[SHO U UP]

I'm still plugging away at my car. The reason there isnt many FI V8's is because nobody worth a **** at tuning ***** with the V8's. Eric, sorry, but your car is mail order tuned. Which mine will be too. Until someone breaks the binary codes, the V8 guys are just hosed. I'm working on this. I know of a gentleman who can break the binary, its just a matter of will he do it....

- James

There are many tuners out there but like you said, tuning a V-8 SHO is not as common as say a Mustang. I've got my Lightning tuning guy that WILL tune my car whenever I get off my butt and get it to the dyno. Now the weather has broke I can do it. Just didn't want the 90+ days killing what power I had.

Errr - no.

My car has been to Atlanta and touched directly by Doug Lewis and plugged straight into his computer. It was my fault that it had a bad coil at the time, but no mail order business was in action while my car was under his roof.

****'s cars' program actually SAYS 'SHO R T S' for a reason - we developed that program hands on and he benefited from it.

Doug IS "Worth a ****, IMNSHO." And those that have followed, and BORROWED from him, would do well to give credit where credit is due.

I've been begged to open a Gen 3 SHO repair facility by many folks over the years, but I just won't do it because of the limited environment - too few cars to make a living. I enjoy my hobbiest status and appreciate the **** out of anyone brave enough to try to take on working on these critters for a living, yourself included, Sir.

We'll all keep playing, it's NOT rocket science. One day we'll crack all the codes.

Yes sir, Eric and I have the same program as it's on my SCT tuner too. I have had no luck getting back into contact with Doug about a few minor issues with it, but my tuner can work his magic and get it on the dyno with no issues. A few CELs keep arising and they won't go away for long. And glad to hear you're working on that M112 swap buddy. Makes me wish I hadn't sold the 3 I had laying around. If my car sticks around long enough, I'll be slapping one on mine too.

 

[St Louis SHO]

The SCT support for the V8 PCM is just not good. I know this for a fact
. I still cannot fully wipe the ATX from my tunes. Adam at Popsracing is who we need to talk to. Once the binarys are broken, its on like donkey Kong.

 

[Siman]

I'm still waiting on the engine from NESHO he should be delivering it soon to St Louis SHO. But I need to get the gen 1 SHO 100% running before I do anything. The V8 is a MP-90 supercharger, a Mazda 6 5 speed, all into a gen 4, and with all the add-ons to make it work. Also going for custom one piece cams, the stock ones scare the **** out of me, just need the cams to send in.

 

[venom]

I'm still waiting on the engine from NESHO he should be delivering it soon to St Louis SHO. But I need to get the gen 1 SHO 100% running before I do anything. The V8 is a MP-90 supercharger, a Mazda 6 5 speed, all into a gen 4, and with all the add-ons to make it work. Also going for custom one piece cams, the stock ones scare the **** out of me, just need the cams to send in.

Welcome to the A65M-R tranny camp...

Might I suggest South Bend for your clutch. I went clutchmasters for the first one and while it was okay I beat the crap out of it and it's lfie reacted accordingly. I like the bite of the southbend much better.

Have fun extracting the dowels from the block to put the longer ones in. I think my .250" plate between was close to the target but depending on what you are doing for the flywheel I think I'd take about .050 off the backside of the flywheel as There needs to be a fuzz more than .250" between the block and tranny but there just is not more space. I suppose you could go .300: between the block and tranny but space for servicing the belt gets even tighter then, and I would plan on relocating the PS reservior if the pump gets any closer to that side.

So how does a thread go from XR4 and correct wheel drive talk to now covering a V8 + MTX Gen IV (lost gen IV) wrong wheel drive build with FI?