major problems, please look..

[zyntax]

Well yesterday I was drving along side of my friend, when he told me smoke was pouring outta my right front wheel well, which I saw too.

We both pulled into an empty lot and looked under my car, and to my suprise, or should I say demise...oil was all over the bottom of my car! Oil was on my new catalytic converters, the oil pan was covered in it, and it was smoking!

So I drove her home shut her down and called STS. Brought her over there and they checked it out...

Turns out that my Front main seal and Rear main seal are deteriorated, Oil cooler and Oil Press switch are all leaking. eek! eek!

STS said that Ford needs to do taht work, adn to fix it they need to drop the trans, and it will cost $2000 to fix

I dont have this money, I've owned the SHO since May 2002 and i've already put 2000 into it! I wasn't aware of the SHO love/hate thing till after I joined the SHO community. Now I've wasted money on it, and I can't spend anymore...

Now I am wondering from all your expert opinions, will it really cost $2000 dollars to fix all that, and will I have to ditch the SHO?

How the **** am I supposed to even get ridda the car with $2000 dollars worth of work that needs to be done...

I dunno what to do...I am so screwed...If anyone can gimme some advice, please do.. frown

 

[SolidState]

Ok...first thing...relax...

a leaking front main seal isn't all that hard to fix, and is typically done during the front half of the 60k. The seal is something like 8 bones, but you gotta really tear into the front half of the engine to get to it. Good time to change your timing belt, waterpump, CPS...etc.

Same thing with the oil pressure sender, and easy seal to fix.

Now, the rear main seal is the only thing I don't know about. I know mine was leaking, but it isn't anymore. If you watch your oil levels, I don't think it is that big a deal.

Before you go any further, jack the car up, and thoroughly clean the underside of the car. Without cleaning it and watching the oil drip down, you can't positively know where the leak is coming from.

<small>[ September 15, 2002, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: SolidState ]</small>

 

[zyntax]

The guy who sold it to me said the 60k was done already, all of a sudden theres oil all under my car and its smoking!

STS told me that it's good that I brought it home when I did or my car would have caught on fire!!!!

I will admit I'm very new to the SHO scene and I had no idea of the SHO woes...it's also my first car... my parents are really dissapointed, we are going to have to take out a damn car loan becuase I need a new car now, unless I can get it fixed for WAY under 2k dollars frown

<small>[ September 15, 2002, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: zyntax ]</small>

 

[SolidState]

well, I haven't seen the car, but I would say catching on fire might be a bit excessive. There would have to be a pretty big leak, one which might damage the internals of the engine. Sounds more to me that there is a bit of oil dripping on the cats and burning off.

The 1994 ATX that I am driving right now is my first car, and it has it typical SHO/Taurus problems, but I am eager to figure them out.

I would have say that you should really figure out what the problem is before you jump to conclusions. I find it weird that all off a sudden the car is leaking oil out of four places.

What does your oil level indicate?

EDIT, BTW, the day I took delivery of the car, a leak develped in the rar main seal due to it sitting for a while and drying out, and that small leak absolutely COVERED the underside of my car. Wasn't until I cleaned it that I could tell where the leak was coming from. Samething with the hole in my oil pan this week.

<small>[ September 15, 2002, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: SolidState ]</small>

 

[luigisho]

Wow I feel for ya kid. These cars can be tough to maintain on a small budget. The first thing to do is to get the oil level back up to spec. Then you will need to find out where the major oil leak is coming from. If the rear main seal is the culprit then the labor cost will be high. That requires dropping the transmission and the labor hours will start to pile up. I can't imagine 2K for dropping the tranny alone though. If it is the front main seal someone can talk you through that. It's alot of work but doable even if you don't have alot of time on the wrenches. There are other places to look like valve covers oil level sender cam seals etc... Try to trace it and come back with what you get.

I just looked at the ALLDATA labor hours and it puts rear main seal at 7.1 hrs. The shop can vary a bit but not too much. Again, this may not be the problem and you should know what the problem is prior to leaving it with a mechanic to keep your options open if possible.

<small>[ September 15, 2002, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: luigisho ]</small>

 

[SolidState]

I have a bill here from the previous owner of my car for the rear main seal....total came to just over 500cdn, so around 300-350US...

the others, you can do yourself with a little patience and a couple tools...

 

[Mr Anonymous]

zyntax:
I will admit I'm very new to the SHO scene and I had no idea of the SHO woes...it's also my first car... my parents are really dissapointed, we are going to have to take out a damn car loan becuase I need a new car now, unless I can get it fixed for WAY under 2k dollars

While I certainly feel for you, with an almost 12 year-old car with over 125K miles on it, you are going to run in to these types of maintenance issues. Personally, I think that the maintenance costs are going to be the same on any make/model vehicle of this vintage and mileage.

That being said, the most economical ways to make the repairs you need would be to do the work yourself if you're comfortable doing so, or find a friend or local SHO nut who would be willing to help out for short $$$ (there are a few of us out there).

As SolidState said, the first step would be to do your best to positively ID the source(s) of the leak(s). It could actually turn out to be a lot less serious. Even if it is as bad as they said, you're not looking at a whole lot of $$$ for the parts. I don't have the Ford labor time standards CD handy, but I know a number of other forum members do have it, and can give you the published labor times for the various repairs you supposedly need. You can then shop around by hourly rate to determine what it would really cost you to go to a Ford dealer or a competent garage.

If I were you, I'd be skeptical of the diagnosis this 'STS' made. Where they said that Ford would have to do the repair work, I tend to doubt that they would be competent enough to diagnose the exact cause of the problems and yet not be able to repair them.

You're fortunate to be in the northeast, since there are numerous reputable shops around which either specialize in the SHO, or have broad experience with it. I'm sure some members from NJ can advise you on who to talk to if you don't want to do the work yourself, or can't find anyone to help out. Spend a couple of days calling around, doing research, getting quotes, etc. In addition to the help of the forum, I'm confident you'll find that doing the repairs yourself isn't insurmountable, and even if you opt to have someone else do them for you, that $2000 off-the-top-of-his-empty-head estimate that one mechanic gave you is probably 3-4 times what it would really cost you.

 

[zyntax]

So far after having my license for a few weeks i've already seen 2 SHOnuts, one with a red mtx, he said hes seen me on the forums before, and just the other day a guy in a gen II sho with gold filled in body lettering, tinted windows and custom wheels.

So I know there are guys out there, I am comfortable with working on my SHO, just not nearly as confident, I have no experience I must say, but I love my SHO...I wish it were easier

If theres anyone around my way, Middlesex, New Jersey, please contact me

If I can indeed even fix this problem, I know more stuff could go wrong, and will...I need a reliable car, I wasn't aware of the SHO lifestyle until after I got the car.

If anyone is around my way and would be friendly enough to help, please contact me, I really don't want to give up the SHO lifestyle...it's such a rare breed of a car, and the enthusiasts are awesome people too, since the car is such a rare breed, I think the people from the community that go with it are just as rare and unique, I'd hate to give that up...It just wouldn't be the same in the say import scene, or whatever.

Anywho, sorry for rambling...

 

[SolidState]

personally, I think it isn't all that bad a first car if you come to terms with the fact that you will have to maintain it.

I have learned alot about cars in general so far from just studying my car....

 

[zyntax]

I agree, with a new job maybe I can do it, but who knows..

 

[BeatDaSHO]

just stick with it man. do this. wash down the underside of ur car with a garden hose and then wipe it clean with a rag. Start up ur car and crawl underneath and see if u can find where the leaks are coming from. My front main seal leaks and i replaced it once and it just leaked again so whatever. It leaks a quart every 1000 miles but who cares. it's oil. u just fill it back up. The rear main seal is usually done when u have the clutch done. if that seal is leaking, i wouldnt' worry about it too much. i say, if u are leaking over a quart every 800 miles or so, then find the leaks and start fixing them. if u dont' leak that much, then don't worry about it. oil is so cheap. but i would do the work urself if you decide to do it. parts are cheap. it's the labor that kills you. try it urself or with a shoforum buddy. trust me. u will praise urself in the end. good luck man.

Greg

 

[93nighthawk]

Zyntax, don't worry, trust yourself! This car looks intimidating to work on, but once you get greasy and bloody, it is pretty fun. Plus there is no mechanic out there that will do a better and more careful job than you. Good luck, and if you have any stumbling blocks, just ask here. thumbs_u

Eric

 

[CharlieSHO95]

As the other guys have said, relax a bit and start working through the problem. That oil pressure switch is probably 90% of your problem and it's the easiest one to deal with.

My experience with old seals is if you drive it hard for for 15-20 minutes, you end up with lots of oil and smoke (you and your friend were racing around, right?). After you stop driving it hard, the leaks become much more tolerable, nothing that would cause you to have to get rid of the car. As was said earlier, just keep track of the oil level. Low oil will toast your engine.

 

[billh]

I had a relative with a similar problem. She took her car in to have one of the local minute lubes change her oil. The guy who worked on it said she had a rear main seal leak and needed to have is fixed ASAP. He recommended a shop and said the job would run about $2000.00. Very upset, luckily she contacted me before she let anyone touch her car, much less the recommended shop. She did have an oil leak, but it was coming from the oil sender. Replaced for under 20.00.
Calm down, you have been given excellent advice about cleaning the engine and finding the exact leak. It may not be as bad as you have been led to believe. Rear main seal leaks are very annoying, but I have never seen one pour oil out like you described. (Except when the seal was installed incorrectly in the first place) In all probability, your major oil leak is coming from a bad oil sender.
Good Luck
Bill

 

[JaySHOguy]

I had to have the rear main seal replaced in my former '91 SHO... I brought it to a shop, and they charged me about $950. They also had changed the oil pan gasket, and two subframe bushings.

Later on, i checked out a transmission shop, and asked for a quote. "$350-400" is what i was told.

Shop around before you trust any shop with your car. TRUST ME. I learned the hard way eek!

 

[rangerj]

ZYNTAX,

If you buy any car with over 100K miles on it you are going to have maintenance and/or repair issues. If you do not mind getting your hands dirty, and have a little mechanical ability, you can do most of the repairs yourself.

Do you know where the front main crankshaft seal is? Do you know where the oil sending unit is? Do you know where to look for the signs of a rear main (crankshaft) seal leak?

Either go to the local library's referrence section and look up the location of these items, and what to look for when they leak, or buy an inexpensive repair manual like the Haynes series for your model year SHO (Taurus/Sable). Make sure that the SHO is covered in the Taurus/Sable manual before you buy it. I'm not a big fan of Haynes, but they are inexpensive and have good pictures. They are written for the less experienced "do-it-yourselfer".

While your reading, and learning about oil leaks, spray the oily areas of the underside of your car with some brand of de-greaser (e.g. Gunk Degreaser from Wal-Mart, or Auto Zone etc.), and after letting it work for the time prescribed by the manufacturer, hose it off and remove most of the grease and oil. Then you will have an easier time finding the source of the leak.

Once you find the source, the next step is to determine how to fix it. Read the book, read this forum, read SHO Times, go to the library and read some more, until you feel pretty confident that YOU can do the repair.

It would be even better if you knew someone that is a decent mechanic to walk you through the repair. But if you do not, you have access to hundreds, if not thousands, of top notch nechanics willing to help you right here. We can tell you what to do, but you have to turn the wrench and get greasy!

Lastly, as long as you are leaking oil you should check your oil every day until you know how much oil you are leaking, and the interval. For example, are you leaking a quart a day, a week, a month, 100 miles, 1000 miles, etc.? Until you get your leaks fixed, KEEP YOUR FOOT OUT OF IT! Hope this helps. rangerj

 

[Millersho]

Calm down.

We've all been through it.

Wash it down, figure out were it's worse.

If it's the rear main causing it, just keep topping your oil until a clutch or tranny goes out, replace it then.

It it's anything else, PLEASE DO THE WORK YOURSELF.

Your SHO and pocketbook won't survive if you have others do all your car work.

The SHO has turned me into a mechanic and I love wokring on MY OWN cars.

2 lessons you can learn here.

1. A car with 100,000 miles or 10 years old is going to have problems!

2. Study your SHO or ask around, when something goes out or you replaced something, there's probably 2 to 4 others things you can replace while your there that can save you money.

Like when your tranny or clutch goes out, thats a good time for the rear main, Oil lvl, oil pressure, oil pan gasket, subframe bushings.

The front: Timing belt, water pump, front main, CPS, idler pulleys.

Top: knock sensor, fuel injectors, intake gaskets, spark plugs. ETC ETC ETC

You get my point, I've saved ( or spent now that I'm selling her) alot of time and money replacing things while I'm already there.
BUT MAN, I've learn so much.

 

[snowwind1990]

Exactly determine oil leak source.
Look at dipstick everyday to see how much oil is leaking.
Leaks on engine block from seals do not occur suddenly as you described.
Oil sender
Oil pressure switch
Oil level sensor....these three will "suddenly" cause a considerable loss in a short period.
The oil pan gasket is probably the absolute messiest of all the leaks, and can "dump" a lot at once..if you keep your oil level up to the top of the crosshatch.
No way 3000, 2000, or even 1000 bucks is reasonable to repair a leak...
Be logical about this,,,,and after all it's oil, and that can look a lot cheaper than a repair bill. Fill it to just under the "line" and don't let it get below the hatchmark or you will have pressure problems on start up.
............
and relax, oil leaks are not as big a deal, eek! ,coolant leaks on the other hand, those may bring grief in a quicker time.
Go to the Public Library and look up a manual for the SHO and copy the engine blow up pics...this will guide you through what you are cleaning up and keeping an eye on.
Ma Ma M................ask any and all ???? you have here thumbs_u ..that is what we have a forum for.

 

[zyntax]

Thanks for all the awesome suggestions guys..This is such a cool community but I have come to the conclusion of selling the car.

I've come to realize that yes, the car is older now (1991), and it will have problems, I can't get sunk into a hole owning this car. After reading the forums for some time now I can see it's a common thing, and I'm only a senior in HS and i don't make much money.

From what you guys are telling me the problem should be an easy fix for an SHO Nut, so I am asking is anyone on these forums would be willing to buy my car. It's got alot of aftermarket accessories and aftermarket audio components.

It's a 1991 MTX with 125k on the clock, If you'd like to come check the car out I'd be glad to have you over my home.

It just got exhaust work done, new y-pipe and cats, and also flowmaster 50 series muffs. I also just got the subframe busing recall done a week ago.

If anyone in the community is wanting a new SHO to have, I'd really want to sell it here, becuase I'd rather it be sold to an SHO enthusiast who would take care of it and know how to work on it, not some shmuck like me who has no money and no mechanical experience. wink

So if you are intersted please say so.

Leather is in beutiful condition, no rips, just natural wear and tear. Most specs are in the sig, but if you want I can go into more detail.

Thanks for listening

PS: I also have pics of you want to see em, I can also snap new ones at request.

<small>[ September 17, 2002, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: zyntax ]</small>

 

[RStalveyARFF]

dude, keep the car, you're fussing over nothing. The cars barely cost anything to maintain, if everything is done on time. ****, I just swapped a 3.2 into my car for under $400, and with the extra parts I'll make half that money back. Just take a deep breath, and realize we're all here for you. Fix that damn leak, and enjoy the car. Do a few maintenence jobs here and there, till you feel more and more comfortable with the car. I bought my car in may of 2001 and I didn't even know how to set the timing on the damn thing. Thanks to this forum, and an added confidence, I now have my own shop dedicated to the sho, and no job is too big for me now!! Just check out my signature, the only things not done by me were the subframe connectors, and the valve job. It's a learning curve, you just need to get higher up on it.