Livernois tune ordered!!

[TheDailySHO]

Just finished ordering my tuner from Livernois! Can't wait to get this installed and join the tuner group. Quick questions for those that came before me.

Has anybody just pulled the stock plugs and made sure the gap is .030 and reuse?

Has anybody just left the plugs alone and not done anything and if so what were the results?

(My research indicates that the 13+ SHO's came with the colder plug and that it's the same plug that Livernois recommends only with the correct gap.)

Are the spark plugs easy to get to and remove/replace?

I don't beat on my cars but do perform the occasional quick acceleration for fun so I'm just curious if the plugs and or thermostat is required.

Thanks for any answers you may provide. Now I just have to go home and deal with the wrath of my wife who probably just saw the email receipt for $600!!!!

:woo-hoo::woo-hoo::woo-hoo:

 

[rcryniak]

Tell her the truth... that you did the family a favor, and got a real bargain. You'll save about 2-3 mpg, so if you drive 12,000 miles per year, you'll save ~51 gallons of gas in such a year, which should translate to about $200/year in savings... so it'll pay for itself in only 3 years, earn you an additional $400 over the remainder of the life of the loan, assuming a standard 60 month loan. So, you didn't really spend money, you very wisely invested in something enjoyable that should see as much as a 166% return on investment... that's better than most stocks do! :hdance:

 

[TheDailySHO]

Thats funny...and true! I'm sure she won't buy that for a second but I'll give it a shot. I'll use my standard lines, "I don't hunt or fish or have any other hobbies to spend money on." Plus with the tune I can get her to the jewelry store much quicker.

 

[rcryniak]

... Plus with the tune I can get her to the jewelry store much quicker.

Hahha :laugh_ti:... sweet.

 

[WojoMojo]

Yeah you can definitely just re-gap your stock plugs. I had my local Ford dealership put in the updated sp534 (mine had the previous gen plugs) and gapped to .030. I'd definitely recommend getting them gapped though if you tune it. Getting to them isn't terrible. Here is a write up guide for it.

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum...ml?PHPSESSID=17edaa4dd47ae6e394cc571837ad2621

As far as a thermostat goes, if you live in cold weather and plan on driving it during the winter leave the stock one. I see you're in Minnesota (as am I). I don't have an aftermarket thermostat on mine and I'm running 16 pounds of boost with my 3 bar MAP sensor and my car stays cool just fine. If you want the best numbers possible then you could get a 170 degree thermostat (wouldn't recommend a 160 unless you track/drag it a lot). On the dyno it definitely got hot quick and I could of benefited from a lower degree thermostat. I just want to keep my heat working good this winter when it its 30 below

 

[TheDailySHO]

Yeah you can definitely just re-gap your stock plugs. I had my local Ford dealership put in the updated sp534 (mine had the previous gen plugs) and gapped to .030. I'd definitely recommend getting them gapped though if you tune it. Getting to them isn't terrible. Here is a write up guide for it.

http://www.ecoboostperformanceforum...ml?PHPSESSID=17edaa4dd47ae6e394cc571837ad2621

As far as a thermostat goes, if you live in cold weather and plan on driving it during the winter leave the stock one. I see you're in Minnesota (as am I). I don't have an aftermarket thermostat on mine and I'm running 16 pounds of boost with my 3 bar MAP sensor and my car stays cool just fine. If you want the best numbers possible then you could get a 170 degree thermostat (wouldn't recommend a 160 unless you track/drag it a lot). On the dyno it definitely got hot quick and I could of benefited from a lower degree thermostat. I just want to keep my heat working good this winter when it its 30 below

Thanks for that info. I'll just pull my stock plugs out (sp534) and see what they look like and re gap them. I'm not going to the track or anything so I'll leave the stock thermostat as well. (plus I will drive it in the winter)

 

[BamSHO]

Which tunes are you getting from LMS? The new 4X requires there 160 Tstat. I'm running the 4X 3bar set up and love it. Have the SP534 plugs gapped to .030. I've had zero issues with any LMS tune this year. Car ran great and gas mileage went up. Welcome to the club. I wont be driving the car in the winter so, wasn't worried about the colder tstat.

 

[TheDailySHO]

I guess I'm not sure what exact tunes I'll be getting. I needed to have it for 91 instead of 93 as 93 is not always available. I advised them that I have a cold air intake and better flowing mufflers but that's it for mods. It will probably be pretty generic and conservative but from what I have read it will definitely wake up the car. When I tuned my 07 Mustang GT with an SCT tune from Bama Performance (American Muscle affiliate) they sent it loaded with three custom tunes based on my mods. Each stage had a bit more aggression and when I got to the race (3) tune I stopped and left it alone. LOVE it!! I'm guessing this experience will be very similar in that I will gap the stock plugs and leave everything else alone for now. Again it's not going to be going down a track anytime soon but I want to maximize the street level performance.

 

[BamSHO]

Cool, I putting much ran the 93 Stage4+ as my daily drive tune, even went to Hilton Head Island to see parents with the 4+, 25-26 mpg average. Congrats on tuning you will be so thrilled and pleased. This things are such sleepers it isn't funny.

 

[brucelinc]

Daily, since you have a 2013, the stage 4 and 4X really do not apply to you. My understanding is that your 91 and 93 octane tunes are similar to the 4+ that those of us with the 2010-2012s get. In any case, I agree with BamSHO - you will love it!

As for the thermostat, I live in Minnesota and kept the stock 180 because I was not willing to give up the quick warm-up and better heater performance. I have freaky fast performance, great gas mileage and zero issues. If I lived in a hot climate or if I tracked the car on a regular basis, I would have gotten the cooler 'stat and used it during the summer months.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Thanks for that info. I'll just pull my stock plugs out (sp534) and see what they look like and re gap them. I'm not going to the track or anything so I'll leave the stock thermostat as well. (plus I will drive it in the winter)

To be 100% clear, the 160 tstat is NOT just for warmer climates or drag cars. We have not had any issues with them in cars, and our climate is the same in Michigan as MN. The reason that we recommend it so highly is because it allows you to run a more powerful, stable and efficient tune. Turbo motors love cooler air and lower running temps, that's why we offer the tstat.

 

[WojoMojo]

Southern MN may be similar to Michigan, but Northern MN is not. Average monthly temps December-February where I live (30 miles from Canada) is between -3 and -5. Detroit MI average monthly temps December-February are between 22-26. (Minneapolis average is between 7 and 13) While yes it would probably work, it's not necessary for a great and stable tune. Plus you loose heat from a lower thermostat. You'll never get a warm car this winter (do a quick search of 160 thermostat in winter). Again, just my opinion and not trying to down Livernois at all!!

 

[rcryniak]

Honestly, I'm now finding this conversation a bit confusing...

I've been soaking up as much information as I can over the past few months, and what I learned about T-stats is that they govern "target" temperature... when the engine's running hot, it will have the system try to push it to the lower target temp if at all possible... but when the engine is cold, they prevent the cooling system from doing it's thing until the engine warms up. Again: TARGET temperature. If that's true, and someone with advanced automotive knowledge please correct me if that's NOT true, then a 160 T-stat won't prevent your car from starting cold or warming up at all... regardless of climate. It will simply prevent it from running hotter than 160 degrees when it reaches that temp.... if it can.

I did the Google you suggested, and the only "evidence" of harder starts with a colder T-stat are a small handful of user reports of such; I didn't find anything that seemed definitive or authoritative. So, if my understanding is correct, then having a 160 T-stat won't be a problem, since when cold, the T-stat won't be doing its part to cool the engine regardless.

I've also read that colder temps don't necessarily give your engine more power, that if the engine's operating within designed temps (e.g. not even remotely overheating), a nice warm engine gives more power than a cold one, all other considerations notwithstanding. Colder air on intake can make more power though, since colder air is denser, which means more air... and more air = more fuel... so a true cold air intake can make more power - e.g. taking in actual cold air from the outside. If the 160 T-stat keeps the engine bay cooler, and therefore improves cold air on intake since our air filters are in the engine bay, then I can see it being beneficial... what I'm wondering though is if it's not better to get real cold air in, rather than keeping the engine bay cooler with a lower T-stat. But again, I'm a noob when it comes to these things... would love some clarification from some experts.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

Honestly, I'm now finding this conversation a bit confusing...

I've been soaking up as much information as I can over the past few months, and what I learned about T-stats is that they govern "target" temperature... when the engine's running hot, it will have the system try to push it to the lower target temp if at all possible... but when the engine is cold, they prevent the cooling system from doing it's thing until the engine warms up. Again: TARGET temperature. If that's true, and someone with advanced automotive knowledge please correct me if that's NOT true, then a 160 T-stat won't prevent your car from starting cold or warming up at all... regardless of climate. It will simply prevent it from running hotter than 160 degrees when it reaches that temp.... if it can.

I did the Google you suggested, and the only "evidence" of harder starts with a colder T-stat are a small handful of user reports of such; I didn't find anything that seemed definitive or authoritative. So, if my understanding is correct, then having a 160 T-stat won't be a problem, since when cold, the T-stat won't be doing its part to cool the engine regardless.

I've also read that colder temps don't necessarily give your engine more power, that if the engine's operating within designed temps (e.g. not even remotely overheating), a nice warm engine gives more power than a cold one, all other considerations notwithstanding. Colder air on intake can make more power though, since colder air is denser, which means more air... and more air = more fuel... so a true cold air intake can make more power - e.g. taking in actual cold air from the outside. If the 160 T-stat keeps the engine bay cooler, and therefore improves cold air on intake since our air filters are in the engine bay, then I can see it being beneficial... what I'm wondering though is if it's not better to get real cold air in, rather than keeping the engine bay cooler with a lower T-stat. But again, I'm a noob when it comes to these things... would love some clarification from some experts.

You've got a pretty firm grasp on what is going on actually. The lower tstat does not adversely affect the heating of the vehicle. The reason why you get more "power" by having it is because there are certain required parts that you need to have to run certain more powerful tunes.

 

[Wurf]

Honestly, I'm now finding this conversation a bit confusing...

I've been soaking up as much information as I can over the past few months, and what I learned about T-stats is that they govern "target" temperature... when the engine's running hot, it will have the system try to push it to the lower target temp if at all possible... but when the engine is cold, they prevent the cooling system from doing it's thing until the engine warms up. Again: TARGET temperature. If that's true, and someone with advanced automotive knowledge please correct me if that's NOT true, then a 160 T-stat won't prevent your car from starting cold or warming up at all... regardless of climate. It will simply prevent it from running hotter than 160 degrees when it reaches that temp.... if it can.

I did the Google you suggested, and the only "evidence" of harder starts with a colder T-stat are a small handful of user reports of such; I didn't find anything that seemed definitive or authoritative. So, if my understanding is correct, then having a 160 T-stat won't be a problem, since when cold, the T-stat won't be doing its part to cool the engine regardless.

I've also read that colder temps don't necessarily give your engine more power, that if the engine's operating within designed temps (e.g. not even remotely overheating), a nice warm engine gives more power than a cold one, all other considerations notwithstanding. Colder air on intake can make more power though, since colder air is denser, which means more air... and more air = more fuel... so a true cold air intake can make more power - e.g. taking in actual cold air from the outside. If the 160 T-stat keeps the engine bay cooler, and therefore improves cold air on intake since our air filters are in the engine bay, then I can see it being beneficial... what I'm wondering though is if it's not better to get real cold air in, rather than keeping the engine bay cooler with a lower T-stat. But again, I'm a noob when it comes to these things... would love some clarification from some experts.

I don't consider myself an expert, but from what I understand you are correct about warm engine ( typical operating temp ) making more power than cold. This is not to be confused with cold air intake VS warm. Cold air holds more oxygen and that allows you to make moar power. A colder motor however isn't necessarily better as you said.

But 160 isn't THAT cold. A power adder car with added boost and more timing over stock, lower cylinder temps are key to fighting detonation and from this standpoint, I see the logic behind recommending a 160 T-stat. The motor could still surpass this temperature but understand once the coolant hits 160, the T-stat should be wide open allowing the cooling system to do it's thing as much as possible.

If I were to install a 160 T-stat as part of a tuned package considering that I'm going to push the motor more, I personally would check my cooling system and make sure it's working well with fresh coolant in the system and rad cleaned of bugs and debris etc. I'd check it thoroughly.

I would also expect a hit in gas mileage running a 160.

Not to get off topic, but how do other members here feel about Redline water wetter? I was surprised how well this stuff worked in one of my past project cars and it did drop the temps a number of degrees. Anybody run it or recommend it?

 

[BamSHO]

I haven'y taking a hit in mileage with any mods I've done to the car, including the 160 Tstat. I'm taking the car to Track Day, which is a 800+ mile trip. Will report back here on my mileage.

 

[bpd1151]

I have ZERO issues running my 160 T-Stat.

Still get plenty of heat, no issues at start up, you name it. ZERO.

Keep in mind, this given the much revered "Polar Vortex" that tightened it's grasp around the Chi-Town area this past Winter, where temps were often in the single digits +/- for high's, and double digit below zero temps for the lows.

I'm hoping though this upcoming Winter will be the last for my DD SHO, as keeping this big behemoth of a car constantly clean has grown tiresome.

Thought I'd toss in some real world experience from a trusted, valued SHO owner FWIW.

 

[rcryniak]

Cold air holds more oxygen and that allows you to make moar power.

Colder air on intake can make more power though, since colder air is denser, which means more air... and more air = more fuel

Tomay-to... Tomah-to... lol

I would also expect a hit in gas mileage running a 160.

Very good point.. with more energy expended to cool the engine earlier on, the energy having to come form somewhere, that makes sense. However, the question is... how much more energy is required, depends if it'd be noticeable from the fuel consumption perspective.

I haven'y taking a hit in mileage with any mods I've done to the car, including the 160 Tstat. I'm taking the car to Track Day, which is a 800+ mile trip. Will report back here on my mileage.

Looking forward to seeing how the turns out.

 

[wuzzzer]

What temperature is the stock t-stat?

 

[rcryniak]

180, pretty sure.