Koni Problems !

[220ksho]

I put Koni's on my '90 and on my friend's '93. We BOTH have had the lower Koni insert bolt loosen and fall out! Causes major suspension issues when it happens. I was able to salvage my strut, but his was completely damaged and useless.

Anyone have this happen? I guess factory torque prevailing features aren't enough. I have invested in a whole drawer full of Loctite.

Upset,
Jeff

 

[Todd TCE]

Jeff I sold these years ago and never had one come lose. I did them in complete form only, not sold as inserts however.

The proper fit of them requires the housing be cut right at the top before fitting the insert. If you can feel the knurled top of the insert under the rubber boot yours are cut too short. This knurl MUST be pulled into the housing for a solid fit. When installed this way the knurl digs into the strut housing and prevents it from rocking in the bore. This in turn keeps it from rattling as well as preventing the insert from rocking on the bolt on the bottom.

Be sure you have the cup washer in place too. Torque them down with some blue loctite to about 70lbs if I remember right.

If your housings are not cut properly I'd hit the junk yard if I were you. Ideal year; 92-93 I believe. Gold cap on them, not the early ones are best.

<small>[ April 04, 2003, 09:21 AM: Message edited by: Todd TCE ]</small>

 

[89 Gary]

I've put in 6 sets since 93 and also no problems. Just have to make sure you use their hardware (thick washer) and not to strip and torque to specs.

 

[FAST4DR]

I cut the tube as close to the top as I could, but the knurled part just barely goes into the tube.

Should I grind a little off the bottom of the insert to make it seat further down? It is in there very tight. I torqued it to 63 foot lbs and used blue locktight.

I also had to get new bumpers and bellows. I found this bumper/bellow combo on rockauto.com that is one piece. I like it because it slides onto the shock shaft and then gets zip tied to the strut tube.

 

[89 Gary]

Originally posted by FAST4DR:
[QB] I cut the tube as close to the top as I could, but the knurled part just barely goes into the tube.

Should I grind a little off the bottom of the insert to make it seat further down? It is in there very tight. I torqued it to 63 foot lbs and used blue locktight.

I also had to get new bumpers and bellows. I found this bumper/bellow combo on rockauto.com that is one piece. I like it because it slides onto the shock shaft and then gets zip tied to the strut tube.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Actually you havn't cut enough of the strut! You're not supposed to have that knurled part into the strut. As I recall it sticks up above just a little and then you slide the rubber "boot" over that so it's a nice tight fit. I assume you grinded/filed off the little "nubs" off the Koni's so it would slide in the strut. Please read the directions from Koni as it tells you and shows you how much to cut.

 

[89 Gary]

http://www.koni-na.com/pdf/boltstrut.pdf

 

[FAST4DR]

Ok, now I'm confused. I didn't file anything off the koni's but then again I bought them slightly used from a guy who switched to tokico's. If I put the rubber boot around the koni insert I don't think it will fit inside the strut casing. I'll try it a little later. I though the rubber belt was just a dust seal if the strut sticks up above the casing like picture in figure II in the directions.

In figure I it shows the knurled part halfway down inside the tube without the rubber band thing. On figure II it shows the koni insert sticking way outside the strut tube and using the rubber band to go on the outside.

The way I currently have them installed they are very tight. When I tightned the bolt down, it drew the knurled part very slightly inside the case. When I initially slid the koni insert inside the strut casing it left the bottom of the insert just barely not touching the bottom of the strut casing. When I tightened the bolt down, that's when it drew the insert into the strut casing and bottomed the insert.

I think if I grind a 1/16" off the bottom of the koni insert and then install them the way I have them, it will draw the knurled part of the insert into the casing even more. With the knurled part inside the casing and the insert bottomed out at the bottom, it's not going anywhere.

I think the whole goal is getting it tight so it doesn't move side to side or rattle. Wouldn't putting the rubber boot inside the casing allow a little movement and possible deterioration over time?

 

[89 Gary]

No-you got it right-except the rubber boot goes of course on the outside and seals the insert to strut housing "small gap" as to prevent any water from getting in the housing. If you tighten the bottom bolt and it brings the knurled part into the housing then that's fine but you just might not be able to get it out without some fancy die cutting or whatever. Of course even if you ever have to send back to Koni (as I have done 3 times) you can just send the entire strut if you can't remove insert (I did once and explained I couldn't remove and they didn't charge me). Since you got the Koni's used then maybe whomever filed down the nubs prevented you from getting a tight fit when you inserted-------so maybe it is a good thing to have the knurled part drawn into the strut to make a tight fit. As long as the bottom is snug after tightening to spec then it's OK. Also-since you are not the original buyer of the Koni's you are not under warranty any more. You would have to have the original owner do the swapping for you as he must send a photocopy of his registration to prove his sho is still registered.

 

[Todd TCE]

No Gary, actually you are wrong, the common practice is to cut it low because it's easy. The right fit is going to have the entire knurl down in the housing. This creates a press fit of the upper portion of the insert. The only real way to get this right on the money is to do it in a lathe. Trust me on this I did way many of them and they fit like a glove. If you cut is shorter the small bumps in the insert pound out the side of the housing and will in time rattel. (a common complaint on early parts back in about '92 or so) When cut in the lathe the cut line is at the side of the upper seal in fact. The directions on the Koni parts reference a dimension that had to be this way on the very early housings as THEY are of a different design- they have a taper fit top from Ford and you had to do it this way. The later (and IMHO preferred part) is the 93 housing or so which allows the knurl to be placed properly as the housing is longer. It can be ID'd by it's yellow zinc 'top hat' which can be simply knocked off with a hammer. The cut it about 3-4 cm from the end if I recall- right past the factory dimples. Hope this helps others, but the one in the pic is borderline and I don't believe this is the problem.

And reading more if you grind the nubs off the insert there is NOTHING to hold it in the factory housing from rattling! The ID of the housing is quite a bit smaller than the insert so this is definitely not the way to go.

And if you are wondering why all of this is as it is, it's because the inserts are a bastard child and are custom based on some other insert made and then fit with the proper length rod to make it fit a Taurus, thus the limited supply as the rods come from Holland for it.

<small>[ April 04, 2003, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Todd TCE ]</small>

 

[FAST4DR]

Todd,

I cut the strut right below the crimped on top cap, so I couldn't have cut any higher. I guess I could have tried to pound the top cap off and that would have gave me a little more tube.

Do you think it would be ok to grind off some of the stem on the bottom of the insert, so as to seat the insert farther into the strut casing? It is very tight as is but it is barely on the knurled part. I think I might do that since there is plenty of room for the bolt to go into the bottom of the insert. If not I can cut the bolt down a little. I have a tap/die set to clean things up.

<small>[ April 04, 2003, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: FAST4DR ]</small>

 

[89 Gary]

The ID of the housing is quite a bit smaller than the insert so this is definitely not the way to go.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Todd-you do mean the ID is bigger? Well anyways,maybe all this depends on what housings you have because there was no way we could get our inserts in without filing down the nubs (not completely). And there was no way the knurled part would fit in the insert also. FYI I used new Gabriel housings (rear struts) because these were the only ones I found which had the correct length for the Koni inserts. All others I found were shorter version-hence,incorrect. Are you using Ford housings? The Koni instruction does seem to indicate cutting low but since you have found better results it sounds good to me. I just hope mine don't rattle in the future----I'll have to monitor over time.

 

[FAST4DR]

Gary,

Where did you get the gabriel struts and how much were they? I know my 95 has the short rear struts, which I don't have off the car yet and the koni's that I have look pretty long for the rear. I don't think they are going to fit properly. I have a couple options.

1. I could swap my 95's rear struts onto my 91's, which has the longer struts and use the 91's casings.

2. I could weld a collar onto my 95's strut tube to extend the length.

3. buy the gabriel struts you talk about and cut them apart.

I am thinking I will probably do #1 if they don't fit properly in my 95's strut, but if the gabriels aren't too much then that would save me a good bit of work and time.

 

[89 Gary]

HMMMMMMMMMMM-----You have to use the correct "length" of strut which your car calls for. I know in my 89 that means the rears were the longer version. I don't know what other years call for. I am going to guess and say the Gabriels were about $45?

 

[Todd TCE]

I'm simply trying to help out the next poor soul who encounters this problem. No picking on anyones plan of attack.

Use ONLY the 93-94 housing, KNOCK OFF THE CAP with a hammer (don't use it as a saw guide) and cut them about 3-4mm from the exposed end, (a lathe is nice...) and then 'suck them in' with the bolt on the bottom. They'll be dead flush up top, no grinding of any kind, no clunking, etc. etc.

The PROPER housing to use is the one in the pic above. It's on nearly every T/S out there in 93-94. Except maybe the Phoenix metro area! lol

<small>[ April 05, 2003, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: Todd TCE ]</small>

 

[FAST4DR]

Todd TCE:
I'm simply trying to help out the next poor soul who encounters this problem. No picking on anyones plan of attack.

Use ONLY the 93-94 housing, KNOCK OFF THE CAP with a hammer (don't use it as a saw guide) and cut them about 3-4mm from the exposed end, (a lathe is nice...) and then 'suck them in' with the bolt on the bottom. They'll be dead flush up top, no grinding of any kind, no clunking, etc. etc.

The PROPER housing to use is the one in the pic above. It's on nearly every T/S out there in 93-94. Except maybe the Phoenix metro area! lol

So I have the correct struts even though my car is a 95? You know, I thought of trying to knock that cap off, but the directions kept saying to cut down so far, etc. And since I have never installed these and the koni instructions suck, I thought I would cut as high as possible. Glad I did or they wouldn't have worked at all.

The koni shocks I have are the right numbers that are listed for the 95 sho but I still think the rear strut housings are going to be too short. Don't know if I will get them off tommorrow or not. I am going to work on changing my cps/timing belt/water pump, etc.

I assume that the goal is the same for the rear struts. To get the knurled housing inside the rear casing?

<small>[ April 05, 2003, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: FAST4DR ]</small>

 

[FAST4DR]

I have another queston also... (koni/intrax)

Will I be able to get the alignment within specs on the rear with the stock arms? If not, what kit do I need to install. Will eccentric bushings be enough to bring the camber within spec? Or do I need the adjustable aftermarket arms? I am not familiar with the rear suspension as I have yet to take it apart.

 

[Todd TCE]

The 93 housings used with the proper inserts will all fit the 89-95 car. I think there were shorter ones used as one point on the Taurus, but that's why I chose these specific housings and the early inserts. They back date to all the years. You may not be able to fit the early insert in the very late housing or the other way 'round.

 

[ThrillSHO]

Ok, I'll add my .02 - from a guy who's been there. About 2 years ago I posted a bunch of info on this topic - not sure if it is still around. In fact, I think I warned that the inserts could come loose. Todd is correct and here are some additional highlights:

1) Not all stock strut tubes are long enough to properly accept the Konis (as you've figured out).
2) I have never seen a replacement strut (even from Ford) that would properly accept the Konis.
3) I posted the FOMOCO part numbers of the front and rear strut that would work best with the Konis. The exact struts is no longer available from Ford (the equivalent replacement doesn't work either), but when you are scrounging the bone yard you can quickly check the label. I'll see if I can find the numbers again.
4) The easiest fix I have seen is to weld a tube extension (of the correct ID) onto the strut tube to make it longer and correctly capture the knurled end of the Koni. Since the proper stock tubes are becoming scarce this seems like the best alternative. The SHO Shop does it this way and will probably sell tubes properly modified to accept Konis.

Good Luck!

 

[SHO92]

I assume that we are talking about the rear struts, since I'm pretty sure that the fronts were not changed between gen 1 and 2. The rears were changed mid-92 to a shorter strut, and Koni has noted this and makes 2 different rear inserts. I have housings from a 91 at all 4 corners. I have no rattling at all after following the instructions that come with the inserts. This was the second of 3 Koni installs that my friend has done. When we did the third the same way, it worked out fine. I went with the gen 1 housings for the rear for 2 reasons. Longer strut travel and they were already off the car, so I didn't have to first disassemble my car to get housings. I'm almost positive that my konis stick out about as much as fast4dr, maybe slightly less.