Is intake mandatory for tuned SHO?

[tech10002]

Been mulling over whether to get a tuner or not and was looking at the packages at Livernois. Everything they sell includes an intake. Does anybody know if the intake is really necessary? I prefer the look without the intake and on other vehicles I’ve owned, the intake usually is of no benefit and is purely cosmetic until you get into much higher horsepower levels than stage 1 levels. Is the stock intake on the EB 3.5 really that restrictive?

 

[StealBlueSho]

No, and some have had better luck without it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[krewat]

My own completely uninformed not-worth-$.02 comment, as I haven't tuned it yet:

I put a K&N intake on my 2016 a month or two ago. The immediate "tip in" throttle response is much better. While this doesn't produce a hill of beans in mid-to-high range RPM power, I like the difference. It's a bit louder, I hear the turbos more (especially the over-boost bypass), but that throttle response thing is something that makes me happy.

The corrugated intake piping after the air box, just looks "wrong" in terms of air flow. To me. Again, while it's most probable that it does nothing for WOT performance because once the air is flowing it doesn't matter, it does seem to matter in other areas like low RPM.

The same thing happened with my 2001 F250 V10 - I put a Volant CAI on it, and the throttle response was much more, I don't know, "crisp". Slightly louder, it might have added a slight increase in WOT performance (being that the stock intake pipe after the filter was almost a 90 degree angle after the filter), but overall, it was not a "it does nothing" mod.

I'll be taking my car in for warranty/TSB service soon, so I'll put the stock air box back on. I'll datalog the IAT when it's back on, and then when I switch it back to the K&N. I'll report the results. If it results in higher IATs, well, something to deal with at that point.

 

[Knight]

IMHO, certainly not mandatory. I spent a few weeks tracking IATs with the stock airbox and was quite surprised to see how well-aligned they were with ambient temperatures, which is a strong indicator of how efficient an intake is.

The temptation is there to purchase one, but I have opted not to (so far) for three reasons:

1. Consulted with Brad (AJP Turbo) before purchasing his tune and was advised that an aftermarket intake is not necessary.
2. Design wise, aftermarket intakes are not easily compatible with the UPR catch can I have, which is an actual necessity for these DI EcoBoost engines.
   
3. CEL that is a known-issue with UPR catch cans.

 

[SHOinVa]

which is an actual necessity for these DI EcoBoost engines.

I'm always amazed at how many different opinions are out here, I had a catch can question an someone posted information from Livernois stating not only was a catch can NOT needed but that using one could cause you to damage your motor.
- It seems the same with CAI but the general consensus is NO its not needed, somewhere there was a thread where someone went to the track an switched out Stock to CAI between runs and there was no difference. I really don't know what the truth is BUT i like the look so I have one.
Charlie/

 

[krewat]

It's been my experience that this question is like "do throttle body spacers work?"

 

[Knight]

I'm always amazed at how many different opinions are out here, I had a catch can question an someone posted information from Livernois stating not only was a catch can NOT needed but that using one could cause you to damage your motor.
- It seems the same with CAI but the general consensus is NO its not needed, somewhere there was a thread where someone went to the track an switched out Stock to CAI between runs and there was no difference. I really don't know what the truth is BUT i like the look so I have one.
Charlie/

Here's a good video that goes into detail:

 

[Jeff2017]

The stock intake is very good. CAI is mostly for sound, not for power.

 

[SHOinVa]

Here's a good video that goes into detail:

LMAO You don't have to prove it to me, it makes perfect since to me, it Livernois that has the problem only difference I'm going with the JTL version because not about to try and install the UPR. But yea catch can makes since to me.
C/

 

[tech10002]

Thank for the info. I was thinking that might be the case myself. I’ve had many tuned cars in the past, from a Coyote Mustang to a boosted Acura to a Powerstroke, and the intake was always a waste of money. I don’t want it any louder. That’s what the Mustang is for. The stereo is plenty loud enough for me. Lol. I guess if I decide to tune it, I’ll have to call Livernois about buying just the tuner, t stat, and 3 bar.

I’ve really been struggling with pulling the trigger on a tuner though as I don’t want to void my warranty. I’ve read modern Fords have a flash counter on them, so as soon as you tune it even for 5 minutes, the dealer will know from then on. I don’t have a problem fixing issues myself that could be caused by extra power like a PTU or turbo issue, but it would make me sick if something like the water pump failures that are possible in the EB 3.5 took the engine out and they wouldn’t warranty it.

 

[SHOdded]

Go with a reputable tuner, put your car on a special operating conditions maintenance schedule starting NOW, and put those worries behind you. Tuned cars do require extra TLC because the margin of error the mfr builds in is now used for ******* that smile-0-meter.

 

[SHOinVa]

Don't take my word for anything, I have lots of opinion but very few facts.

I don’t want it any louder.

It's really not that loud, I like my car quiet also but I kind of enjoy a little extra noise when I get in her, if you want it real quiet do away with the noise maker. I think for the SHO the CAI is kind of like when I was a kid. We used to flip the air filter cover on our parents cars, it made a little more noise, you got to see the air filter, but it didn't make the car any faster.
C/

 

[Sgtmeatsauce1]

Nothing is necessary except maintenance. That being said I have a windstorm cai. I notice a slight highway mpg positive difference, definitely a slight throttle response, notice no extra noise unless the windows are down, no seat of the pants hp or better timed evaluations. With the seal properly installed on the windstorm it is about equal to the stock box as far as IAT temps at idle, though CAI cools slightly quicker during cruising after a stop. If I was to do it again I would just stay with my dry panel filter. As far as tune, the car is half a SHO until it is tuned correctly. The local dealer I heard does not have the ability to check the counter, however if blow an engine or something Ford can check it. I have to unhook my battery probably 6 or 7 times a year to fix a clitch with my radio and dashboard lights. So not sure if that counts in the counter or not....

 

[Juicybaka]

Thank for the info. I was thinking that might be the case myself. I’ve had many tuned cars in the past, from a Coyote Mustang to a boosted Acura to a Powerstroke, and the intake was always a waste of money. I don’t want it any louder. That’s what the Mustang is for. The stereo is plenty loud enough for me. Lol. I guess if I decide to tune it, I’ll have to call Livernois about buying just the tuner, t stat, and 3 bar.

I’ve really been struggling with pulling the trigger on a tuner though as I don’t want to void my warranty. I’ve read modern Fords have a flash counter on them, so as soon as you tune it even for 5 minutes, the dealer will know from then on. I don’t have a problem fixing issues myself that could be caused by extra power like a PTU or turbo issue, but it would make me sick if something like the water pump failures that are possible in the EB 3.5 took the engine out and they wouldn’t warranty it.

Testing has been documented with no hp gain between the cai and drop in. I’d imagine cai would be more beneficial when flirting with the 400+hp club

 

[tech10002]

I wonder if they don’t have the ability or just some dealers don’t care until you have major problems. I’ve never seen concrete evidence that a flash counter even exists—though I know it would be pretty trivial for them to include one when they design it, and they could even use something like hardware one time programmable memory so you couldn’t reset it. It’s all hearsay and conjecture, though. There are the “you better not change the air filter or they’ll void your warranty” and the sky is falling crowd and the others that say throw 100 pounds of boost, water meth, and nitrous at it, and you’ll be fine. Lol It’s been like that since I first messed with a tuner on my old 6.0 Powerstroke.

 

[Johnbigdog]

The dealership can kinda tell if there is/was a tune. One way is if they try to update the pc software and there are no files found. This one I haven't experienced, so I forget what the I.D.S. does.

The second is ignition counter. If the ignition cycles since the last refresh is low, the pc has been reprogrammed.

If the dealership restores the pcm back to stock and your car sets DTCs for the 3 bar map...

 

[tech10002]

The dealership can kinda tell if there is/was a tune. One way is if they try to update the pc software and there are no files found. This one I haven't experienced, so I forget what the I.D.S. does.

The second is ignition counter. If the ignition cycles since the last refresh is low, the pc has been reprogrammed.

If the dealership restores the pcm back to stock and your car sets DTCs for the 3 bar map...

That makes sense. In the old days they used to catch people with the keep alive memory. There would be out of spec parameters leftover if the owner forgot to clear it or disconnect the battery. Or it it was cleared, just the fact the KAM wasn’t fully populated and the P1000 code was set was a red flag in itself. There are always clues if you look hard enough.

It looks like you’re pretty likely to get a denial if something expensive fails, and that’s the whole reason I got the esp. The dealers here are so incompetent, I usually end up fixing minor things myself to avoid the hassle of arguing with them. If I’m gonna tune this thing, I’ll have to be okay with no warranty and get the balance of my esp refunded first. Got a lot of thinking to do...

 

[MHW100]

That makes sense. In the old days they used to catch people with the keep alive memory. There would be out of spec parameters leftover if the owner forgot to clear it or disconnect the battery. Or it it was cleared, just the fact the KAM wasn’t fully populated and the P1000 code was set was a red flag in itself. There are always clues if you look hard enough.
...

Isn't this simply deduction and conjecture? Its not definitive proof you've tuned it . Can they or can they not tell if it's been tuned?

 

[Johnbigdog]

Isn't this simply deduction and conjecture? Its not definitive proof you've tuned it . Can they or can they not tell if it's been tuned?

The absolute answer is no, but like above there is evidence that is left. The dealership can choose to not repair something they feel is not warrantable. At the end of the day, if they make a repair and ford rejects the claim the dealership eats the repair cost.

 

[MHW100]

The absolute answer is no, but like above there is evidence that is left. The dealership can choose to not repair something they feel is not warrantable. At the end of the day, if they make a repair and ford rejects the claim the dealership eats the repair cost.

I would have thought they'd have something more concrete to rely on other than circumstantial evidence that I suspect could be subject to a lawsuit . Not that it would ever be sensible to sue Ford over a warranty claim .