Internal Engine Problem (Help!!)

[DETSHO]

I have a 93' ATX SHO with around 169K on it and I have had it well maintained except for the valve adjustment thing with the shims and all. Just recently I was driving from my cousin's new house and I heard a pretty loud knocking/rattling noise coming from the engine. The engine still performed well and never died, stalled, or had a drastic loss of power.

When I got home I looked under the hood and heard and felt the knocking coming from the front of the motor about right where it says SHO on the manifold, not in the wormy intake runners though. So I never started it up again and had it towed to the mechanic I bought it from who has a fellow mechanic he works with who has pretty good knowledge about SHO engines. Now I have talked to him and he suspects a faulty rod bearing or rocker arm and wants to charge me $270 just to take off the valve covers to dig in to it and see whats the problem. Can anyone let me know is he going about this the right way? Could this be the problem or will i have to do something like get the motor rebuilt to ensure no further engine problems?
.........Oh he also said I'm gonna need new valve cover gaskets anyway cause they are leaking, which i believe is true.

 

[twr]

If his mechanic is SHO knowledgeable - he should know that it has no rocker arms. I would suspect rod bearing(s) myself.

 

[SHO--ripper]

Sounds like the rod bearings to me . I wouldn't drive it anymore. Hopefully the crank hasn't been scored and it's the lower bearings so you would only have to drop the oil pan. If it just started mabye not much damage has been done, and it can be fixed relatively cheaply;compared to a new crank.

 

[DETSHO]

So is their hope for my engine or will a faulty rod bearing destroy a engine? Another thing is I'm not sure if I want him to just replace the rod bearing and that's it while he has already open up the engine, shouldn't I ask him to look at the shims and look at my cams for any damage or wear? I plan to keep this car at least 2 more years.

 

[SilverSHO]

Well...the cams and rod bearings are at opposite ends of the engine (top and bottom, respectively), so a valve lash adjustment and rod bearing replacement would be two separate procedures. And yes, if left unfixed bad rod bearings will **** your engine.

If your mechanic wants $270 to pull off the valve covers to check the rod bearings and rocker arms, you have a bigger problem than just bad rod bearings. eek!

 

[DETSHO]

Okay so what are your suggestions of what my problem could be if it's not just bad rod bearings? Also, about the cam wear, should i just get the bearing(s) fixed now and get the valve adjustment A-SAP after that? One more thing, is $270 an awful price or something I know I could save money by doing it mysself, but I'm a college student with a part-time job and selling pre-paid legal, so I don't really have the option nor the patience to do the job........I can see myself getting stuck on one step and throwing a tool into my garage door out of frustration

 

[sdpatt]

169,000 miles is a lot of miles. Many cars don't ever make it that far. "Well maintained" would include all of the required maintenance. If the valve gaps have never been checked, that is not very good maintenance.

Not having heard the noises from your engine first hand, I can't tell you what the condition is that is causing the noise. What I can tell you is that after 169,000 miles and no valve gap adjustment, your engine may have worn shims, worn cam lobes or may have dislodged a valve shim from the tappet bucket. If the noise is originating from the top of the engine, that is a possibility.

Even if the sound is not coming from the bottom of the engine, the rod bearings would very likely need to be replaced after 169,000 miles. The bearings cost $45 from AutoZone and that is cheap insurance to let the engine last a long life.

 

[munkee]

I can see myself getting stuck on one step and throwing a tool into my garage door out of frustration

Oops, I didn't know you weren't supposed to that. shrug
I think you should concentrate on the rod bearings first. Since you couldn't feel the knocking in the runners I wouldn't think your problem is in the valves or cams. Also, I could be mistaken but I don't think rod bearings are that expensive or difficult to replace. I am sure someone who has done them could tell you for sure.

 

[Yamaha V6]

Yup, if the shim has ejected from the bucket, you've just mashed a valve / spring / shim / bucket & could be the lobe going buh-bye, as Scott mentioned. I've worked on one 92 that had ejected a shim, mangled the lobe, etc. - a pic is on my website at
http://members.cox.net/neshospecialists/images/badcam.jpg

Obviously the shim was put on top of the cam for the pic. It was found near the oil return line - luckily hadn't found its way into another cam lobe's path.

For $270, you could buy any & all tools & gasket necessary to open up the cam covers, BTW.

 

[projectSHO89]

FWIW, Autozone doesn't carry the rod bearings per the web site.

Gotta get them either from NAPAonline or special order through your local NAPA store. $7.49 per bearing, 6 needed along with a Fel-Pro Gasket set # OS30636R for the Oil Pan.

Too many parts stores to keep straight sometimes.

Steve

 

[DETSHO]

Okay I just got word from my mechanic, and I also just lost confidence in him. This guy told me the GOOD news is that my cams and rod bearings were good, the problem that causes the knocking is a lifter. He said one of the lifters is getting lazy on me and he can't get the part because its not at the dealer nor aftermarket. So.......he told he is just gonna try and chemically reduce or stop the knocking by using some kinda of heavy oil and i forgot the other chemical he said he was going to use but it ended with blaster shrug . I know it has to be some way to cure this.......can anyone save the day and let me know what I can do. I am willing to do it myself.

 

[Rio]

Dude, your problem sounds EXACTLY like mine. I have a 93 ATX w/ 169,000 miles and my engine started to knock all-of-a-sudden about a month ago and has been in th garage eversince. I had my father's friend who owns a shop on the westside come over and look @ it. I was @ school, but my mom said that he said it was the rod bearings and that I would need an engine rebuild. However, he never took off the oil pan. The noise is very pronounced and loud...so this is very possible. I bought the bearings about 2 days after, and tried to change them...but I'm 17 and I couldnt get the F'n Y-pipe off!

anyway man, I'm in West Bloomfield not far @ all from you. Coincidence that we both have 169k 93's w/ bearing knock, huh? shrug

 

[Mr Anonymous]

DETSHO:
Okay I just got word from my mechanic, and I also just lost confidence in him. This guy told me the GOOD news is that my cams and rod bearings were good, the problem that causes the knocking is a lifter. He said one of the lifters is getting lazy on me and he can't get the part because its not at the dealer nor aftermarket. So.......he told he is just gonna try and chemically reduce or stop the knocking by using some kinda of heavy oil and i forgot the other chemical he said he was going to use but it ended with blaster shrug . I know it has to be some way to cure this.......can anyone save the day and let me know what I can do. I am willing to do it myself.

You are wise to not have confidence in this mechanic as the SHO engine DOES NOT HAVE LIFTERS. It uses bucket valve tappets.

DON'T LET THIS ***** PUT ANYTHING IN YOUR ENGINE!!! TAKE IT TO A SHO-COMPETENT MECHANIC! I'm sure Bizzy or another MI SHOwner can point you to someone nearby who won't try destroying your engine by putting PB Blaster INSIDE of it...
If he's already put something inside your motor, DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR, have it towed to a SHO mechanic.

UGH! eek!

 

[DETSHO]

Okay well what if you can't find a SHO Mechanic and every shop you call says that they will ONLY install a remanufactured engine which will run me around $5,000. eek!
So I have 3 options, either let my mechanic put the heavy oil and PB Blaster to reduce the knocking sound and drive it, Get the car back from my mechanic and pay the $270 he charged me for opening up the engine and try to do it myself after I get the money to buy the tools to open up the engine myself, or go ahead and max out my credit cards to buy another engine and have it put in.

 

[jelloslug]

If the guy said it was your "lifters" he did not even open the valve covers. I would not pay him a dime, he did nothing for your car but give you bad advice. Go get some tools and tear in to it yourself, everyone here will help you... Theres bound to be some helpful SHO ppl near you that might even give you a hand if you ask.

 

[DETSHO]

OKAY, I have good news my washed up SHO mechanic that does not know what he is doing did charge me $230 for opening up the engine and he also put in some 20W-50 oil to see if it helps. It did not help at all. But I know this is going to help because someone told me earlier that if 20W-50 is in your engine and the knocking stops, I has to be rod bearing failure.

I did drive it home...I know, I know I wasn't supposed to drive it but I was not going to pay that SHO-******* $20 a day for storage fee until someone comes up with another mechanic that knows about SHOs. While I was driving it home I noticed something odd, it seems EVERYTIME i accel over about 1700 rpm the cladding (sounds kinda like a card in fan) stops, especially on the freeway. U really can't hear it at all around 2K rpm, don't worry that was the most rpms I accelerated to. So he told me it was not a bad rod bearing because when he listened with the stethoscope it was coming from the front top valve cover i think he said. Anyway, does this sound like an ejected shim to you guys?

 

[Mr Anonymous]

DETSHO:
...he also put in some 20W-50 oil to see if it helps. It did not help at all. But I know this is going to help because someone told me earlier that if 20W-50 is in your engine and the knocking stops, I has to be rod bearing failure.

You should have read the other post more closely, that's not what he said at all...

Again, it's difficult to diagnose a noise we can't hear over the internet. It 'sounds like' it could be a number of things. The only way to find out for sure is to open up the motor and look (which by the way I'm convinced you're "mechanic" didn't do and just stole $230 from you...). Did he at least fill your blinker fluid and adjust your muffler bearings for you at that price?

 

[Yamaha V6]

A) Drain the 20/50. It's too thick for the SHO
B) IF he opened the cam covers, he SHOULD have seen any damage to the valvetrain. Unless you have dropped a valve due to a broken spring or something, this should be very evident (a large round disc sitting in the head kind of thing).
C) Now's a good time to get your hands dirty & pull the covers off yourself, and take photos to post here, if you don't find a mech.

 

[RStalveyARFF]

card in bike spokes? loose cam chain.

 

[DETSHO]

Well I had no choice in the matter, my SHO began making the engine knocking sound i took it to my "SHO mechanic" right away. It's not like i could have just took it home and opened the engine myself I do not have the tools at all and don't know where to get them, now you say he just stole $230 from me, but I needed someone to open the motor and tell me something I am a college student and I needed to know something right away I use my car for alot of trips, its not like I can just put it in the garage and walk around town where ever I need to go, I'm not a FORD retiree with nothing to do all day and an extra car. shrug