Hi. new (to me) 1994 MTX SHO in the works...

[JTravis1964]

Hi. Since the forum has an introduction section, I might as well show you guys why I am here. I am in the process of picking up a 1994 SHO MTX which appears to be in overall decent condition with a couple of exceptions. The headliner has been pulled down to get to the sunroof and there is no hardshell for the headliner with the car (presuming that it is supposed to have one?) so I need to figure something out with that. It has the other interior plastic parts in the trunk, at least. Also, the driver's side rear window is off track. It's still there and not broken, but I need to pull the door panel and see if I can get it back working again. Also, the clear coat is worn off in spots so I am looking into trying to maybe sand and blend in new clear in those spots. On the positive side, it starts, runs and drives and the rest of the interior appears to be in good shape. So hopefully I can find out how to approach doing this stuff to get it back into a decent daily driver here. Not looking for a show car, just a solid, decent performer that has a classic 1990s vibe to go along with my other project car (a 1972 Gran Torino 351C-4V).

 

[luigisho]

I hope the price was right. Check out places like car-part.com and search for 93-95 cars to see if you can get some used parts. The site can sort salvage yard listings by distance, price etc. That can help to get interior pieces. Even a headliner board. I haven't had to remove one but it's one piece and I've seen them removed with the windshield out. Maybe someone can chime in if it's doable to get one in without removing that. Welcome aboard!

I've heard the Facebook group is a good place to locate parts for this car also

 

[kryptto]

welcome, definitely a project car for sure. good luck and thanks for sharing

 

[Irish Pride]

Welcome to the obsession!

-Chad

 

[excidere]

no hardshell for the headliner with the car (presuming that it is supposed to have one?)

That appears to be an after market sunroof, maybe a Webasto from what I can see of the mounting flanges? Not sure without seeing the switch or the motor. In the 90s/2ks when we installed aftermarket sunroofs the headliner was mostly cut away (if not thrown away outright) and either a new one was built with closed cell foam, or headliner material was stretched across and glued to the appropriate places (kind of like how old hotrod headliners are done).


From the dangling white bits in the middle, it looks like they used closed cell foam on the sunroof frame, and then "floated" the headliner material over to the remaining part of the original headliner board (which you can kind of see in the 3rd photo)

Good luck with the fixups! and Welcome!

 

[zoomlater]

Welcome!

 

[luigisho]

Not sure if that airbag cover color fades differently. If not, possible it was collision or just replaced due to fault.

 

[Irish Pride]

Not sure if that airbag cover color fades differently. If not, possible it was collision or just replaced due to fault.

The gray interior cars do fade at a different rate. The airbag in my 95 is a different shade than the rest of the dash. It's not as noticeable as this one but it's definitely noticeable.

-Chad

 

[JTravis1964]

That appears to be an after market sunroof, maybe a Webasto from what I can see of the mounting flanges? Not sure without seeing the switch or the motor. In the 90s/2ks when we installed aftermarket sunroofs the headliner was mostly cut away (if not thrown away outright) and either a new one was built with closed cell foam, or headliner material was stretched across and glued to the appropriate places (kind of like how old hotrod headliners are done).


From the dangling white bits in the middle, it looks like they used closed cell foam on the sunroof frame, and then "floated" the headliner material over to the remaining part of the original headliner board (which you can kind of see in the 3rd photo)

Good luck with the fixups! and Welcome!

That is interesting to read. So this may or may not be an original sunroof car. It does seem to have most of it intact, but pulled off and to the rear of the interior. So instead of having to find an original headliner board, I may wind up either trying to reglue this one, or pull it off the rest of the way and use it for a pattern to make a new one to just glue back in, or??? Is there anywhere online that would have any sort of a repair/replacement; maybe in somebody's thread on this site? Or maybe even a scan of the original installation guide for these aftermarket sunroofs? I appreciate the help and guidance with this (and all the feedback and greetings from everyone else in the thread as well).

ETA: Okay, a little bit of web searching and I found these: https://www.donmar.com/Tech/H300M-Install.pdf and https://www.donmar.com/Tech/H300L-Install.pdf

I am presuming that these are the installation guides for the sunroof? I am looking forward to getting the car paid for and home so that I can get better pictures and be able to work on it, to fix the issues and get it useable for a daily driver.

 

[excidere]

Those are instructions for top sliders, it looks like you have an inbuilt. If you have a picture of the switch or the motor assembly I could probably help you identify it.

This video is a good example of a factory style board, vs a floating / aftermarket style:

Generally to re-do it floating style you'd need a few yards of headliner material from a trim shop and some good contact adhesive, at the shop we used Weldwood contact adhesive sprayed from a cup gun. Clean up the remaining bits of original headliner board and make sure they're secure in place.

You spray the outside edges of the remaining board, and then anywhere you want it to stick: around the dome light, around the switch plate, around where the visors/clips mount etc. Then roll out and spray the material itself. Let it dry, and then you bring it into the car. I like to start from the back, sticking it to the edge up by the rear windshield and then stretch it across to the front header by the front windshield, then pull out the sides keeping a steady tension, then press in the dome lights, visors, pull straps, etc and trim, then cut an X where the hole opening is and stretch into the hole opening.

If you want a more solid style, you can mold a board with closed cell foam that can be purchased at a trim supply store, aka landau top pad. It's a bit more work as you have to shape and build the board first and then cover it. Important to allow the contact adhesive to dry before trying to stick or you're gonna get a lot of finger indention.

A good trim shop should be able to fix it up for you in a day for a few hundred bucks. I would avoid places like "bob's headliner emporium" and either try to find an aftermarket accessories shop that does aftermarket sunroofs or a good trim shop that is comfortable with fabricating / floating a headliner.

 

[JTravis1964]

Once I have the car in hand, I will get much better photos and show the switch, etc. to help identify it better.

 

[JTravis1964]

Okay; I just got the car home this afternoon, and here are the pictures of the sunroof motor and the switch for it. I was told that the sunroof quit working which was why they had the motor out but I don't know any more than that yet. Number one priority is to get the rear drivers side door panel off and see what it needs to get the rear window back on track and working, then the sunroof/headliner is next on the list.

 

[excidere]

That is an old ASC. Usually what went wrong on those were either the slider mechanisms break (and stuck in the tracks causing the sunroof mechanisms to stop sliding/working, and clicking sounds) or the controller box dies (making no sounds, just completely dead).

You may try emailing them, they often have random parts in bins. I will probably be expensive to get it to work though (vs just fixing the headliner)

AFTERMARKET SUNROOF PARTS | ASC - Sunroofs & Leather Interiors

ASC is your source for aftermarket sunroof parts. We stock parts for ASC sunroofs, Webasto sunroofs, Hollandia sunroofs, Donmar sunroofs, CRL sunroofs, SFC sunroofs and many more.

www.ascsunroofs.com

 

[JTravis1964]

Honestly, the sunroof (as long as it does not leak and it does not appear to be doing so) doesn't matter to me enough to spend money on it at this point. All I really want to do with it is to have the headliner back up there in place so that the inside doesn't look like a bucket of ass. I did manage to get the motor pulled on the drivers rear door power window and got the regulator manually moved back up. Once I can find one of those tiny little snap ring pliers, I will pull it apart and see if it is those 3 little plastic balls that have gotten shredded. If so, I can replace them and get the power window working again but in the meantime, at least is it closed now without the flapping plastic cover. I do have another question that I need to do a search on here for. For the life of me, I have yet to be able to find the low port for the A/C system. The high side is right there up front by the battery, but the low side to add freon into it appears to have jumped dimensions or some such. Either that, or I am just not looking the right spot or just looking right past it. But since my climate control isn't kicking the A/C on (the rest of it seems to be coming on, just not cooling) then I need to be able to read the charge and add some to the low port to see if the compressor will kick on at that point, or if some other hilarity is ensuing that is waiting to surprise me. Any quick hints/pics/thread links? Thanks.

 

[luigisho]

Sunroof... overrated option

 

[JTravis1964]

Sunroof... overrated option

I mean, it would be nice to have IF it worked. But if I have to put a bunch of money in the car, the first things it needs are the 60K/120K service, getting the climate control and A/C working for Summer, and getting the drivers power seat working because the last owner was just a wee bit longer-legged than I am. I can reach the pedals enough to drive it but I would prefer to be just a bit closer to have a more positive reach (especially if I decide to see what it is capable of). The car has just under 140K miles on it and I have *NO* idea of the service history of it, so I am presuming nothing at the start. It still runs decently but I don't want to half-ass it until something breaks that could have been avoided, right? At SOME point, I would like to try getting it out to see how it does at the local SCCA autocross event(s). I was into that back when this car was new and while I am sure that there are faster cars in it these days, it would be a great way to get the feel for the limits on this one.

 

[PaulTAutoX]

I mean, it would be nice to have IF it worked. But if I have to put a bunch of money in the car, the first things it needs are the 60K/120K service, getting the climate control and A/C working for Summer, and getting the drivers power seat working because the last owner was just a wee bit longer-legged than I am. I can reach the pedals enough to drive it but I would prefer to be just a bit closer to have a more positive reach (especially if I decide to see what it is capable of). The car has just under 140K miles on it and I have *NO* idea of the service history of it, so I am presuming nothing at the start. It still runs decently but I don't want to half-ass it until something breaks that could have been avoided, right? At SOME point, I would like to try getting it out to see how it does at the local SCCA autocross event(s). I was into that back when this car was new and while I am sure that there are faster cars in it these days, it would be a great way to get the feel for the limits on this one.

Ooo, ooo, autocross, now I have to comment! I spent years autocrossing my '92, first in stock (now Street) class and then modded up into Street Touring by SCCA rules. The car has fallen off of the named list for Street Touring but still falls into the "Catch-all" for STS, and if totally stock (allowed - air filter, brake pads, shocks, one sway bar can be changed) is still in H Street. It won't be top drawer competitive in H Street as cars keep getting faster. For instance, a new Accord or Camry has a bunch more power and room for bigger tires on their wider wheels. It'll surprise a bunch of folks though, and I had one event where I beat a bunch of guys in early WRX's, leading others in their local discussion group to diss them because they were topped by a "grocery getter".

Someone will walk up and say, wow, how much did you have to pay to get a manual installed in a Taurus?

As far as the allowed mods, tires have advanced a ton since the 90's, and if you want to do it seriously are a necessary update. If it's a daily I'd advise not going for the Extreme Summer category (see Tire Rack's site) because they aren't meant to be driven in winter. The sizing will be a challenge, most folks including me went to 225/55-16; you can size up to a 17 but you can't change wheel width or offset in Street class. If you go "ultra high performance all season" then the Continental DWS 06 plus or Michelin Pilot Sport All Season are top choices and still available in the 225/55-16. A lot of the really top performance tires (200 treadwear rating, usually are marked Summer Only) are not available in that size.
Your choices for sway bar are varied - back in the day the consensus was that Ford pretty randomly changed "stock" sway bar sizes between years and even within a year. I think there's data here at SHOForum somewhere, commonly it was 24mm/23mm f/r. I felt that the wheelspin from the open diff was my bigger problem so I put on the smaller (wagon) front bar to keep the tires a bit more planted. But you could put on one of the big rears to try to balance the car better, I later went as high as 29mm when modding other things allowed when I changed to Street Touring.
Keep us posted! And run at least a top grade synthetic oil.

 

[JTravis1964]

Ooo, ooo, autocross, now I have to comment! I spent years autocrossing my '92, first in stock (now Street) class and then modded up into Street Touring by SCCA rules. The car has fallen off of the named list for Street Touring but still falls into the "Catch-all" for STS, and if totally stock (allowed - air filter, brake pads, shocks, one sway bar can be changed) is still in H Street. It won't be top drawer competitive in H Street as cars keep getting faster. For instance, a new Accord or Camry has a bunch more power and room for bigger tires on their wider wheels. It'll surprise a bunch of folks though, and I had one event where I beat a bunch of guys in early WRX's, leading others in their local discussion group to diss them because they were topped by a "grocery getter".

Someone will walk up and say, wow, how much did you have to pay to get a manual installed in a Taurus?

As far as the allowed mods, tires have advanced a ton since the 90's, and if you want to do it seriously are a necessary update. If it's a daily I'd advise not going for the Extreme Summer category (see Tire Rack's site) because they aren't meant to be driven in winter. The sizing will be a challenge, most folks including me went to 225/55-16; you can size up to a 17 but you can't change wheel width or offset in Street class. If you go "ultra high performance all season" then the Continental DWS 06 plus or Michelin Pilot Sport All Season are top choices and still available in the 225/55-16. A lot of the really top performance tires (200 treadwear rating, usually are marked Summer Only) are not available in that size.
Your choices for sway bar are varied - back in the day the consensus was that Ford pretty randomly changed "stock" sway bar sizes between years and even within a year. I think there's data here at SHOForum somewhere, commonly it was 24mm/23mm f/r. I felt that the wheelspin from the open diff was my bigger problem so I put on the smaller (wagon) front bar to keep the tires a bit more planted. But you could put on one of the big rears to try to balance the car better, I later went as high as 29mm when modding other things allowed when I changed to Street Touring.
Keep us posted! And run at least a top grade synthetic oil.

I was planning on running that new Valvoline Restore & Protect 5W-30 in it. I figure 31 years of who-knows-what oil ran through it for however long, it might be a good idea to give it a gentle cleaning over the next few oil changes? In the meantime, I have been doing a few things to it. Rebuilt the window motor that wasn't working on the drivers side rear window so now that one works, changed the battery cable terminals to get a decent connection (the positive one wouldn't even tighten up) rehung the rear view mirror, ordered a new combo turn signal switch and headlight switch because they were causing issues with the lights staying on after they were shut off unless you wiggled the turn signal, which keeps running the battery down, and tried to charge the A/C but the compressor is not wanting to engage. I tried bumping the compressor clutch and bypassing the low pressure switch without any luck. So I guess the next thing is to try and see if it is getting 12V to the clutch and then go backwards from there? It is going to be a bit of a project to get that sort of stuff ironed out, but so long as it remains a RUNNING and DRIVING project, I will just keep plugging away at it a bit here and a bit there. With Summer here, the A/C would be nice to have working, though.
I do have a question- does the 94 SHO also use the replacement headlight bodies from the LX of that year? I was looking on the Rockauto site and saw the reasonably priced LX units and I was thinking of replacing the original ones that are in rough shape. I understand that there are some fancy aftermarket ones that come up once in a while but are possibly out of my current budget for the car. Any suggestions/alternatives?

 

[JTravis1964]

Well, just a quick update on my car. I got the rear drivers side window fixed. Had to pull the motor and change the 3 plastic drums but now it works okay. Meanwhile, the little drums are now ate up on the drivers side front and the passengers side rear windows. Annoying but at least now I know how to fix them. I am just going to get 3 of the kits and plan on doing all the rest of the windows so that will be reliable. Speaking of reliable, I am having another issue I could use some help with. I changed the battery, the headlight switch and the combo/turn signal switch already, but I am still having a weird electrical glitch.

What happens is that the radio has power and played when I was driving the car home initially, but since then it has power but no sound. It briefly tried to have the speakers work this afternoon for a moment a couple of times but then nothing again. Also, the climate control panel on the dash works and will blow air but it does not seem to want to engage the A/C compressor. Also it will occasionally start flashing the entire display while the check engine light flashes, the car cuts out, and then it goes back to "normal" just as randomly. The air bag light constantly flashes but the check engine light stays off unless the flashing part with the rest of the above is happening. Also, the drivers side power seat switch appears to have power but the switch won't move it forward (or up and down) but I am presuming that is probably just the little 4-way switch being bad. But the other electrical stuff is concerning. Does anyone have a wiring diagram for these showing if all the mentioned systems have a common connector or maybe a common ground somewhere and if so, which connector/where is it? I'd really like to figure out if this is something that can be easily fixed. It SEEMS like maybe a bad/loose connector somewhere, but I don't know where to look. I was very careful to make sure that the headlight switch in the dash and the two connectors to the combo switch went in all the way and locked. Any suggestions?

Could a CCRM module going bad cause this combination of symptoms, or would it be something else?

 

[luigisho]

How long has this been sitting? Good likelihood of corrosion and or critter based wiring issues along with the normal really old car potential issues. Any water leak into the car? I am hoping it is a failed part that is easy to find. I remember wiring under the seat chafing/shorting issues but I forget if that was GenI/II or GenIII.

Do you have one of these? Makes reading codes a little easier than paperclip

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