Help, dead SHO, electrical or mechanical or both?

[95SHOdude]

First, this may take a few lines to explain. I'm very mechanicaly inclined but this ones got me scratching my head. shrug Sorry in advance for the long post.

I was driving about 70 and she started to buck. Looked down and the tach bounced a few time. Then she cleared up. I knew my water pump was going (90K on the engine) so I figured CPS geting hot. I replaced the CPS at 60K but not the WP (tight on cash) . Anyway after a few of these the CEL came on. I pressed on. Then she shut down like the motor was turned off. I had her towed home and ran the codes (212, 524, 543). cry

I decided that now that I had a little cash stashed, I might as well fix everthing I knew needed repairing. thumb Here's what's been changed this week: Water pump, CPS, Timing belt, Motor mount, and fuel pump. The Alt, starter and batt are less than a year old. I repaced the Crank sensor at 80 as well as plugs and wires.

Now here's the problem: no power to the starter or fuel pump. I turn the key and no hum. I pulled out the relay and nothing shows shorted but I haven't tried power to it while testing. All my accessories work, lights, alarm, radio etc but nothing with the starter. No click or anything. When she died on me I did smell electrical burn smell but no fues were blown, both under the hood or under the dash. headbang

I've replaced and checked everything mechanical so now my question leads to electrical. Can a computer go out but store and show codes? I figured all or nothing on that one. Next, could the relay for the fuel pump cause the car not to want to turn over? And finally, could something as simple as my ingnition switch have caused this. Why would I get power to everything but a running car? cuss

Thanks in advance for any replys. I've learned alot from this form and hoping you can help me out. hail

 

[SHO--ripper]

Your problem might be a starter solenoid. Replace that.It's fairly cheap and easy. You took care of all the codes with the "money stash." BTW are you sure everything is installed correctly? Was the CPS gapped?

 

[95SHOdude]

SHO--ripper:
Your problem might be a starter solenoid. Replace that.It's fairly cheap and easy. You took care of all the codes with the "money stash." BTW are you sure everything is installed correctly? Was the CPS gapped?

 

[95SHOdude]

SHO--ripper:
Your problem might be a starter solenoid. Replace that.It's fairly cheap and easy. You took care of all the codes with the "money stash." BTW are you sure everything is installed correctly? Was the CPS gapped?

I'm sure I gaped it correctly .030". What throws me is the car shutting off on the highway then not turning over. Batt and alt test fine. I know I didn't lock up the block because I can turn it by hand. And the starter is less than 3 moths old. But I was planning on pulling it and having it checked. Why can't I hear my new 190lb fuel pump prime? I haven't tested the relay or power from the ignition switch. I read you can bypass the relay and have the pump on, how do you do that? At least I'd be able to rule out the pump and wires to it.

 

[masho95]

A couple of things in your post don't add up. You stated that the CEL came on during driving yet the codes you posted don't make the CEL come on. Re-run the codes and make sure you have them right. The only codes that wouldn't be stored in memory (but should come up in KOEO or KOER tests would be an O2 or ACT sensor code). Anyways you stated that you didn't have power to the starter of the FP. Did you check the voltage at the starter? Double check your electrical connections at the battery. The positive cable goes directly to the starter (or starter solenoid in Gen I's) and should have power. If you don't have power at the starter or solenoid (depending on Gen car) then you've narrowed down your problem between the two.

 

[SHO--ripper]

Erik a bad CPS will cause your CEL to come on.

 

[masho95]

I may be wrong but double check:
http://www.shotimes.com/php-bin/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0&sid=84
Neither 211 nor 214 illuminate the CE light. They are both stored in continuous mode.

 

[Mr Anonymous]

You might want to check your CCRM (search the forum under CCRM), and double-check all your ground connections.

 

[projectSHO89]

Clarify the following:

95? ATX or MTX?

Cranks but does not fire or does not crank at all?

Have you used a meter and checked the starter circuits per SP Motorsports Taurus starter troubleshooting? ?

My suspicion is one of the primary battery cables or one of the branch lines. Since I don't have a 95 to look at the physical routing and connection points, you will have to verify them on your own.

Steve

 

[95SHOdude]

Thanks for the advice. More info: It's a 95 MTX. It doesn't turn over at all. I'm getting voltage to the starter from the batt. While I was driving it just shut down like someone turned the key off. I believe my CPS was acting up due to the tach bounce and that I knew my water pump had been leaking on it for a year. headbang

I'm prety good with a meter so that's what I'm going the chect tonight. Yes I did check to be sure my cutoff switch was reset (it wasn't tripped).

Is there a common fault that could take out the fuel pump and starter power? I'll check the starter circuit and CCRM. Thaks all. hail

 

[SolidState]

about two weeks ago, I had a problem where the wire that runs from the starter solenoid on the starter to the fure panel at the rear driver side of the bay.

I that the wire powered that fuse box,and it was causing my car to do all kinds of funny things. It wouldn't start sometimes, the transmission was acting liike it didn't know what it was doing.

Try playing with that wire....

 

[projectSHO89]

I cannot find a common circuit path for the starter and the fuel pump just from consulting the schematics. As mentioned before, the physical connection points of where the branch circuits are located is not available to me. You may have a fult in the engine compartment fuse box.

Because of the work you have performed this past week, I would leave open the strong possibility that having started with one symptom, you have introduced a new problem into the car.

I recommend troubleshooting each problem independently. You may find, by doing so, that there is something in common between the circuits that I cannot see from just the schematics.

Pay particular attention to the integrity of the main ground cable to the starter/block and the small ground wire that runs from the negative terminal of the battery to the RH strut tower and the PCM (if applicable).

To check for power to the CCRM for the FP circuit, look for battery voltage at CCRM pin 12 (Yellow).

For the starter, check for battery voltage at the small wire of the starter with the clutch pedal depressed and the ignition switch in START. WARNING: Exercise extreme caution while making this check! You can be injured if the starter motor engages during this test!

Have fun! These are the kinds of troubleshooting exercises I have the most fun at.

Steve

 

[95SHOdude]

Can you show me the pin out for the CCRM? I have a bunch of trouble shooting procedures I'll try I'm just not sure where all the pins are. I doubt the connector is numbered.

 

[95SHOdude]

Never mind, got it. The Russian web page threw me off.

 

[LaTechSHO]

The first place that you will find a common connection between all those components should be the ignition switch. I don't have a schematic in front of me, BUT, power to all of that stuff has to be routed through the ignition switch. You may want to pull it out and inspect it for visible damage. If any of the pins are burned or there is any plastic melted that would be an indication of a problem.

Louis

 

[95SHOdude]

Here's the lates:

I checked the ignition switch and no visable problems.

Checked all fuses under dash and in engine bay.

I checked the CCRM connector as described: pins 8 & 12 good. Pin 13 good. When I checked pin 18 to ground I had 213 Ohms of ristance but still a ground path.

All Grounds for the batt are good. I'm getting 12 volts to the main starter post. Intake is grounded.

Here's the funny part. While installing the connector back on the CCRM the fan kicked on but then off. The fuel pump never started as far as I could tell.

I took the CCRM appart, just have to drill out a couple rivets. I'll post the results of relay and circut tests. I used to trace sneak circuits so I'll see if anything shorted on the board. The only other thing I didn't check was the relay under the radiator cover (I think it's the fuel pump one). Figured that wouldn't keep the fan, starter etc from working. I'll stop and get that relay Friday since It's a common relay.

 

[95SHOdude]

After taking the CCRM (if that's the right name) apart I found a burnt trace. I cleaned it up and soldered a new wire in it's place. Put it together and now the fuel pump is working. I took a picture of it but I'm not sure how to post it.

Still can't get the starter to turn over but at least one problem is fixed. I'm going to pull the starter and take it back to Autozone to test it. Might as well, I have a lifetime warrenty on it.

I'm thinking about kick starting it in gear just to be sure she's running but I rather use the starter.

 

[projectSHO89]

The starter circuit is easy. You only have the ignition switch, the clutch interlock switch, the starter, and the supply circuit to check.

Half-split the circuit and see where it leads you. Way easier than pulling a starter just so that it can be checked.

Perform the checks I mentioned, and you have the opportuinty to actually learn how to troubleshoot.

Steve

 

[95SHOdude]

Hey, be nice. I have fixed and narrowed down a bunch of stuff alreay. I didn't have anyone around to help with the starter so that's why I'd figure to drop the starter first instead of after checking the circuit. It really doesn't matter what order you check. I mainly don't trust rebuilt starters since this is my third one (last one died without any systoms first). The car is on jackstands and it's real accessable right now too. But I will check the circuits too. Thanks for the info it did help.

 

[95SHOdude]

Power to the starter from the Batt = good.
Grounds = good
Power to second terminal with clutch and key turned = bad.
Power from ingnition key (little wire) = bad.

Everything else is getting power from the key so I'm rulling that out for now. Am I missing a fuse somewhere other than the two FB locations. I do have a factory alarm but that's seems to be working ok. Sets and resets just fine.