somedude_001
SHO Member
Just curious if you ecoboost guys have been removing or gutting your cats yet?
gutting cats
- Thread starter somedude_001
- Start date
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EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
The only
cat that I have gutted (outside of biology class) was back in 1966. My then girlfriend/now wife and I left early Christmas morning to drive 100 mi to her parents house.:woo-hoo:
It was about 10 below zero. We drove my new Corvette about 15 miles and all of a sudden there was a large "boom da da boom da da thump thump"
and then the charging light came on. So I pulled over, stopped, and opened the hood... MAN HAD THAT CAT SPILLED HER GUTS... ALL OVER MY ENGINE COMPARTMENT!! :thankyou:
Luckily I was able to get the alternator belt back on so we could get to Christmas dinner... and... we brought along new specialty hot appetizer... for the celebration... Freshly Cooked!
It was one of my best Christmas memories ever!!!!!!!!!:laugh_ti::laugh_ti:
cat that I have gutted (outside of biology class) was back in 1966. My then girlfriend/now wife and I left early Christmas morning to drive 100 mi to her parents house.:woo-hoo:It was about 10 below zero. We drove my new Corvette about 15 miles and all of a sudden there was a large "boom da da boom da da thump thump"
and then the charging light came on. So I pulled over, stopped, and opened the hood... MAN HAD THAT CAT SPILLED HER GUTS... ALL OVER MY ENGINE COMPARTMENT!! :thankyou:Luckily I was able to get the alternator belt back on so we could get to Christmas dinner... and... we brought along new specialty hot appetizer... for the celebration... Freshly Cooked!
It was one of my best Christmas memories ever!!!!!!!!!:laugh_ti::laugh_ti:
EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
An honest answer is that Kirk @ NESHO is fabricating some pipes that eliminate the cats. This is a better solution as the cats have a piping with sharp angles. Have no idea when he will be finished.
SHODWN
Mother Threasa
Ill be finishing up the first set between Christmas and New years..
SHO60K
New Member
I would like to have off road pipes I hate Cats I would buy them for sure.
SHO U UP
SHO Guru
Wonder what the gutted cats will sound like on a Gen 4 SHO? I hope not like the older V-6s.
somedude_001
SHO Member
I just know from the 2.7T audi engines they respond really well to removing the 4 cats. I can't put a number to it but there is a significant seat of the pants improvement to the mod.
EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
As I have posted elsewhere, I have Kirks NESHO x-pipe mid-pipe, that deletes the 3rd cat and the mid-muffler. Based on logging and tuning, Torrie @ Unleashed tuning noted that my usable boost levels with his 3 Bar Tuning of my Flex, showed a gain of just over 1 PSI, over the stock mid-pipe setup.
What perplexes me is how much performance we are getting from this engine, considering the small turbos, restrictive heads, and unbelieveably restrictive exhaust manifolds and cats. Unfortunately, at some point we will start seeing failures due to cast parts and a weak drive train.
What perplexes me is how much performance we are getting from this engine, considering the small turbos, restrictive heads, and unbelieveably restrictive exhaust manifolds and cats. Unfortunately, at some point we will start seeing failures due to cast parts and a weak drive train.
EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
EB Engines have Wide Band on both sides. Get 2 Lambda readings in my logging. No noticeable variations in the numbers, Higher boost levels do cause DI fuel pressure to drop.
That's why I also have a BAP which seems to add a bit of margin to the DI pressure.
DI numbers make me question just how far this engine can be pushed without a bigger DI pump and perhaps a dual fuel pump system. Will be interesting to see what happens when some of the Detroit guys test the ported heads and more efficient turbos.
That's why I also have a BAP which seems to add a bit of margin to the DI pressure.
DI numbers make me question just how far this engine can be pushed without a bigger DI pump and perhaps a dual fuel pump system. Will be interesting to see what happens when some of the Detroit guys test the ported heads and more efficient turbos.
somedude_001
SHO Member
I can't speak for the SHO but I know the BMW 335's run in the low to mid 13's for AFR. DI lets you run pretty lean safely
Johnny Langton
New Member
Pretty much everything built by Ford since 2010 uses WBO2 sensors.
JL
EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
A low to mid 13 AFR at WOT seems awfully lean to me. That would be a Lambda of around .9.
Ford's stock tune at WOT based on my logging efforts, maxes around 10 to 1, which I realize is VERY conservative.
I get concerned when I see WOT numbers over 12 to 1, and like to see it slightly lower.
The most important issue in my opinion is consistent AFR at WOT, with no spiking or substantial variations. Also, one wants to see similar numbers on both banks.
Ford's stock tune at WOT based on my logging efforts, maxes around 10 to 1, which I realize is VERY conservative.
I get concerned when I see WOT numbers over 12 to 1, and like to see it slightly lower.
The most important issue in my opinion is consistent AFR at WOT, with no spiking or substantial variations. Also, one wants to see similar numbers on both banks.
Johnny Langton
New Member
13:1 is fine for N/A engines at WOT-depending on a few factors. But for FI engines, ~12:1 is more what you want to see at WOT.
JL
somedude_001
SHO Member
Direct injection is a different beast
EcoBrick Bob
SHO Member
I have a friend that had the BMW TT 35i DI engine in a 5 series wagon. Had a limp mode incident that left him stranded... BMW claimed it was a programming issue in one of the cylinders... but they extended the warranty on the engine to like 100,000 mi. Lots and lots of issues with 2007 & 2008 35iTT DI engines.
AND I disagree about your AFR comments. Ask Livernois or Unleashed Tuning, what they consider max safe AFR... JL is correct.
AND I disagree about your AFR comments. Ask Livernois or Unleashed Tuning, what they consider max safe AFR... JL is correct.
Johnny Langton
New Member
You can run at stoich all day long with no issues, and only have to enrich when the catalyst or other overtemp protections kick in. Power will be down a bit over being richened to the values we discussed earlier, but it's safe. That's exactly how all of the 6.8L SuperDuty F250/350 trucks are calibrated from the factory. They never go into open loop enrichment unless there's an overtemp situation or other specific circumstances that you'll rarely ever see.
The dangerous area is that 13.0-13.7:1 (N/A) or 12.5-13.2:1 (FI) range...that's where things typically get unstable and you make a mess of pistons and other combustion chamber damage occurs. My Tbird runs at approx 13:1 on my track tune, but I tone it down some for the street, and run it a bit richer at around 12.5:1 just because of the variance in pump gas.
DI is a bit different, and there's a much more stable combustion chamber, so you can get away with leaner mixtures, but you still have to be careful. Detonation cares not whether the engine is direct injection or port injection-it'll still cause the same problems and damages.
JL
The dangerous area is that 13.0-13.7:1 (N/A) or 12.5-13.2:1 (FI) range...that's where things typically get unstable and you make a mess of pistons and other combustion chamber damage occurs. My Tbird runs at approx 13:1 on my track tune, but I tone it down some for the street, and run it a bit richer at around 12.5:1 just because of the variance in pump gas.
DI is a bit different, and there's a much more stable combustion chamber, so you can get away with leaner mixtures, but you still have to be careful. Detonation cares not whether the engine is direct injection or port injection-it'll still cause the same problems and damages.
JL
