Showgun
Canuck SHO
That sounds hopeful Blaine.....Let's hope they can make repairs for you in an orderly fashion.
You got the car back or did they lend you one?
You got the car back or did they lend you one?
Game Show - What's wrong with the SHO?
- Thread starter blaine109
- Start date
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I have the car back. The dealership has been good, I do feel like they are putting all the effort that they can into finding the root of the problem so that it can be fixed. It's just hard when the car doesn't help you at all by not giving any CEL's. They have put me in a rental car on a few extended trips but this was a drop off one morning and pick up the next day thing so I drove around my wife's' car.
Denny
Taurus Homeland
Did an engineer get involved yet?
PROGRESS!!!!
So I got a call today from the service manager with some "news" on my situation. The data that he sent up to Ford was analyzed and they noticed that just preceding the opening of the wastegate one of the knock sensors was reading about 500 ticks more than the other knock sensors. What does the computer do when it detects excessive knock? It cuts power to the engine so that it doesn't go BOOOOOM!!!! Interesting. So, the engineer told the service manager to inspect for a chaffed wire. If one could not be found he was to replace the knock sensor giving the excessive readings.
So I immediately headed over to the dealership so we could start looking. After giving the engine 10-15 minutes to cool we started digging. And what did we find? If you said a chaffed wire then give yourself a cookie. The wires go to one of the knock sensors below the intake manifold. You can see that wires that come up into a connecter and were not wrapped in any electrical tape or in any type of protective plastic shrouding and it was resting right on a 90 degree edge on the engine.
This would explain how my issue started as a once and a while issue and degraded into a full-time issue as the chaffing progressed and got worse.
First remove the engine cover just to make sure it's out of the way so you can get a good look from all angles. Look down between the 2 intake pipes.
View attachment 926
Go Digging - Big Picture
We saw a connector with wires that were not wrapped in any extra electrical tape or plastic shrouding.
View attachment 928
Chaff - Big Picture
From this angle you can better see the wires resting on the engine.
View attachment 929
Chaff - Big Picture
The chaffing is on the sensor side of the connector which means that they will have to replace the knock sensor. In the meantime we have put a piece of foam insulation on the engine where the wires rest to prevent it from further chaffing and giving false knock readings. I must say that performance is starting to come back. Since we didn't reset the KAM memory, it is taking some time for new values/averages that the PCM uses to run the engine are being used and faded out as new values are factored in and averaged. Power is coming back, the erratic RPM's are fading, the wastegate is bleeding off less and less air with every mile I go.
The new knock sensor should be in Tuesday but depending on what time it comes in I may not get my car back in there till Wednesday. I will have them reset the KAM and also check to see if there are any more software updates available to get me all up to date on everything.
I'll report back Sunday/Monday as I put more miles on my car to let you know if the condition continues to get better as well as what it's like when I get the new sensor in. I will be taking a road trip tomorrow so I will get to get a good like to see if my HWY MPG's are improving. With this issue I was only getting 21 - 22 MPG tops on the HWY when I used to get 26-27 (while driving 80MPH - 90MPH).
Now I would suggest that all of you go out and check for those wires. If they are exposed I would inspect them for any chaffing and then I would recommend wrapping them up in some electrical tape or other means of protection.
So I got a call today from the service manager with some "news" on my situation. The data that he sent up to Ford was analyzed and they noticed that just preceding the opening of the wastegate one of the knock sensors was reading about 500 ticks more than the other knock sensors. What does the computer do when it detects excessive knock? It cuts power to the engine so that it doesn't go BOOOOOM!!!! Interesting. So, the engineer told the service manager to inspect for a chaffed wire. If one could not be found he was to replace the knock sensor giving the excessive readings.
So I immediately headed over to the dealership so we could start looking. After giving the engine 10-15 minutes to cool we started digging. And what did we find? If you said a chaffed wire then give yourself a cookie. The wires go to one of the knock sensors below the intake manifold. You can see that wires that come up into a connecter and were not wrapped in any electrical tape or in any type of protective plastic shrouding and it was resting right on a 90 degree edge on the engine.
This would explain how my issue started as a once and a while issue and degraded into a full-time issue as the chaffing progressed and got worse.
First remove the engine cover just to make sure it's out of the way so you can get a good look from all angles. Look down between the 2 intake pipes.
View attachment 926
Go Digging - Big Picture
We saw a connector with wires that were not wrapped in any extra electrical tape or plastic shrouding.
View attachment 928
Chaff - Big Picture
From this angle you can better see the wires resting on the engine.
View attachment 929
Chaff - Big Picture
The chaffing is on the sensor side of the connector which means that they will have to replace the knock sensor. In the meantime we have put a piece of foam insulation on the engine where the wires rest to prevent it from further chaffing and giving false knock readings. I must say that performance is starting to come back. Since we didn't reset the KAM memory, it is taking some time for new values/averages that the PCM uses to run the engine are being used and faded out as new values are factored in and averaged. Power is coming back, the erratic RPM's are fading, the wastegate is bleeding off less and less air with every mile I go.
The new knock sensor should be in Tuesday but depending on what time it comes in I may not get my car back in there till Wednesday. I will have them reset the KAM and also check to see if there are any more software updates available to get me all up to date on everything.
I'll report back Sunday/Monday as I put more miles on my car to let you know if the condition continues to get better as well as what it's like when I get the new sensor in. I will be taking a road trip tomorrow so I will get to get a good like to see if my HWY MPG's are improving. With this issue I was only getting 21 - 22 MPG tops on the HWY when I used to get 26-27 (while driving 80MPH - 90MPH).
Now I would suggest that all of you go out and check for those wires. If they are exposed I would inspect them for any chaffing and then I would recommend wrapping them up in some electrical tape or other means of protection.
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Showgun
Canuck SHO
Great find and great info Blaine -- cheers and thanks for taking the time to post up for us.
Be sure and let us know how it ends up after the knock sensor replacement and KAM memory reset next week.
You can bet I'll be checking the wiring very closely tomorrow.
C.
mjhpadi
New Member
Thanks for posting all the info and the pictures, I'm really glad that they found your problem and hopefully it will be totally resolved by the middle of next week!
Crash712us
Chasing my tail
Cool deal they have found what looks to be your problem. What I am kinda disappointed with is the wiring on the knock sensors. Replace one years ago on a car of my, and the wiring what shielded wire much like a coaxial cable.
I just got back from my weekend trip and I must say that I am running 90%-95% of where I should be. My HWY gas mileage up (about 210 miles) was 26.2 MPG. This is much better than the 21.5 MPG that I was getting before with all the problems. My MPG on the way back was 26.8 MPG. This was all averaging about 77 MPH.
Power has also returned to near full strength. I should be all fixed up on Wednesday with the replacement of that knock sensor with chaffed wire and a resetting of the KAM.
Power has also returned to near full strength. I should be all fixed up on Wednesday with the replacement of that knock sensor with chaffed wire and a resetting of the KAM.
Showgun
Canuck SHO
Great news Blaine......That must be a relief.
Checked mine and found no chaffing or bare wiring.
It seems that my wiring was routed differently and away from any sharp edges perhaps due to previous issues.
Thanks for the tips on what would be an otherwise very difficult problem to diagnose.
G/L tomorrow.
I checked my wiring last night and it looks like the wires were very close to touching the engine but still in good shape. I think we probably all need to install some plastic loom over those wires to protect them from chances of damage.
markathome
2010 SHO
Interesting that showgun's wires were routed differently than Blaine's.
Would be interesting to see if this was a Job2 (identified by trunk pull down strap) update or mid-year change.
My car is a Job2 build, from 2/10, I'm gonna check this out and let you guys know what I find.
Would be interesting to see if this was a Job2 (identified by trunk pull down strap) update or mid-year change.
My car is a Job2 build, from 2/10, I'm gonna check this out and let you guys know what I find.
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Showgun
Canuck SHO
You deserve both .....you called it. Kudos.
Mine were touching , chaffed a bit and with the hot engine, I'm sure they can probably short out. Tapped them back, reset the KAM (battery disconnect) and I think the engine came back to life! So far so good - excellent post!
Showgun
Canuck SHO
NYND, is yours a '10 or '11?
I think everyone will be checking for issues with that wiring -- if not their dealer should.
Its a 2010 (early build 7/09) and had the similar issues that Blaine had - air rush when accelerating and feeling more like a 150 hp car. Tapped the wires out of the way and all 365 are back. That area also has the thermostat housing around there so gets very hot, even after the car has been off for hours.
Showgun
Canuck SHO
Judging by mine which was made 20 months later (March '11) - Ford relocated those wires to help with the issue.
2XSHOMAN
New Member
blaine I have 2010 and mine is exactly the same as yours, no power until about 35 or 40 and cruising speed the tach is bouncing, and it looks like you may have fixed it so if you read this give us a update since it has been a while since we heard form you and youv'e had time to drive it thanks
I'll give everyone an update. I have driven ~2500 miles (mostly interstate) since the new knock sensor was put in.
I would say it's running right about 95%.
-Gas mileage issue is gone. I'm getting 21 or so avg in town and 27+ on the HWY as long as I stay around 75MPH.
-I do notice that the steering wheel seems to have a little more vibration in it at idle than it did before.
-I think the car feels about 35-50 HP shy of where it should be (I do also have the Airaid intake on)
-Every once and awhile it seems like power is being restricted. This usually seems to occur at hwy speeds and I step on the gas a little to pass a car. The car doesn't seem to downshift and seems to have a bogged down feeling and sound. The RPM's seem to drop down a bit as the car bites into some power and increase then gradually increases; but that seems a bit contradictory to what it should be doing. Even if it doesn't downshift and you apply the gas shouldn't RPM's increase with speed?
-I have looked down in that tight area and it looks like the connector itself may be brushing up against the engine but it's really hard to tell. I'm going to see if I can find some time to reroute that wire/connector away from the engine block to see if that gets me back up to 100%. If not I will be calling the Ford representative up on the phone to discuss this further before I start hauling it back into the dealership.
I will say, it is still nice to be able to break 300 miles before having to fill up the tank. I was having to refuel around 275 miles before....on the interstate I can go about 425-450 before having to stop for gas. In the city around 350ish miles.
I would say it's running right about 95%.
-Gas mileage issue is gone. I'm getting 21 or so avg in town and 27+ on the HWY as long as I stay around 75MPH.
-I do notice that the steering wheel seems to have a little more vibration in it at idle than it did before.
-I think the car feels about 35-50 HP shy of where it should be (I do also have the Airaid intake on)
-Every once and awhile it seems like power is being restricted. This usually seems to occur at hwy speeds and I step on the gas a little to pass a car. The car doesn't seem to downshift and seems to have a bogged down feeling and sound. The RPM's seem to drop down a bit as the car bites into some power and increase then gradually increases; but that seems a bit contradictory to what it should be doing. Even if it doesn't downshift and you apply the gas shouldn't RPM's increase with speed?
-I have looked down in that tight area and it looks like the connector itself may be brushing up against the engine but it's really hard to tell. I'm going to see if I can find some time to reroute that wire/connector away from the engine block to see if that gets me back up to 100%. If not I will be calling the Ford representative up on the phone to discuss this further before I start hauling it back into the dealership.
I will say, it is still nice to be able to break 300 miles before having to fill up the tank. I was having to refuel around 275 miles before....on the interstate I can go about 425-450 before having to stop for gas. In the city around 350ish miles.
Showgun
Canuck SHO
glad to hear that your car is a little better. Must be a relief.
As far as the poor downshifting and hesitation and lack of power, have you tried manual shifting instead of kickdown and gotten the same results?
Give it a try to see if you get the same results.
G/L
As far as the poor downshifting and hesitation and lack of power, have you tried manual shifting instead of kickdown and gotten the same results?
Give it a try to see if you get the same results.
G/L
