fixed the starter....now....

[Mike Compton]

Well It was the starter. In fact when we took the starter off, we tried to hit it with jumper cables....nothing. Not a click. Not a sound. Nothing.

That is the good news. The bad news...some no name auto repair place in a little town about 25 miles from here replaced the starter. They told my in-laws that it was a NAPA starter. The reciept has a NAPA part number on it. Took the starter off, drove to NAPA and they looked at me like I was nutz. That is not a NAPA starter. It was an ORIELLY starter. So I had to buy the NAPA starter. Now I have to try and track down where the heck the starter came from and who bought it, so that I can get the money back to pay for the one that I bought and put on my car. ARGGGG....

Now here is my question. Can a failing starter cause problems that would resemble a bad alternator? I was told by my inlaws that the alternator was going bad. But the battery was well charged...and once the starter was replaced I could not find any symptoms of a bad alternator. It seems fine. Any ideas?

Now, all I have to do left is replace the front fender. Do a FULL 60k, change some gaskets that are leeking a litlte. All 4 brakes need replaced. The Air is dead (it reads really high presure even with only a few oz of 134a in it...the compressor seems to be kicking in, but I dont think that it is actually working) Replace the struts, tires, windshield. Change the tranny gasket and filter. replace air blower motor (once the cooling part is working again) and several other things. wooo hooo. At least it is running now.

 

[masho95]

Now here is my question. Can a failing starter cause problems that would resemble a bad alternator?

Well maybe... the starter starts the car and that's it. But if there is somehow a drain on the charging system which the alternator can't keep up with then I guess it might seems like a bad alternator. But more than likely that's not going to happen, but I guess it somehow may be remotely possible.

 

[oh_SHO]

Well It was the starter. In fact when we took the starter off, we tried to hit it with jumper cables....nothing. Not a click. Not a sound. Nothing.

That is the good news. The bad news...some no name auto repair place in a little town about 25 miles from here replaced the starter. They told my in-laws that it was a NAPA starter. The reciept has a NAPA part number on it. Took the starter off, drove to NAPA and they looked at me like I was nutz. That is not a NAPA starter. It was an ORIELLY starter. So I had to buy the NAPA starter. Now I have to try and track down where the heck the starter came from and who bought it, so that I can get the money back to pay for the one that I bought and put on my car. ARGGGG....

Now here is my question. Can a failing starter cause problems that would resemble a bad alternator? I was told by my inlaws that the alternator was going bad. But the battery was well charged...and once the starter was replaced I could not find any symptoms of a bad alternator. It seems fine. Any ideas?

Now, all I have to do left is replace the front fender. Do a FULL 60k, change some gaskets that are leeking a litlte. All 4 brakes need replaced. The Air is dead (it reads really high presure even with only a few oz of 134a in it...the compressor seems to be kicking in, but I dont think that it is actually working) Replace the struts, tires, windshield. Change the tranny gasket and filter. replace air blower motor (once the cooling part is working again) and several other things. wooo hooo. At least it is running now.

That's it?

 

[PROPHET]

The starter would have nothing to do with holding charge.

You could start the car, leave it running and disconnect the battery if the car dies the alternator is bad, if i remember correctly.

 

[Mike Compton]

Well I did this. The car ran for a minute or two maybe and then died. As soon as I lifted the poitive cable off the battery, the car ran a lot rougher...so I will assume that the Alternator is going. the next question...how hard to replace? lol.

 

[autobahnsho]

Took me an hour, including cleaning everything up. On an MTX.

 

[seraphiem]

Err, someone please correct me if I am wrong here.

But removing or disconnecting the battery from a running car is a big no no. Why?

From what I always understood the battery acts as a load in the vehicles electrical system. IE, the alternators voltage regulator is designed with that load in my mind. Removing the battery (and hence the load) causes the voltage regulator of the alternator to become unbiased (grasping for proper term here) and respond with an output of a higher voltage. Well, higher then 11 - 13.8 Volts anyways.

In my past experience with older fuel injected cars (early to mid 80s), when the computer (ECU, PCM, or whatever you wanna call it) observes that the battery load has been disconnected it will **** the engine immediately. This way the high voltages coming from the alternator won't spike out the computer and other sensitive stuff. Even if the voltage regulator can compensate for a lack of the battery load, it will surely spike for a brief moment. If the computer can survive that though, I don't know.

When I was an ignorant 17 year old, I only half-tightned down the battery in my '70 Jeepster. Sure enough, sometime in the next week the battery disconnected itself and all my lights in the truck became super bright. For a whole second or two till they all blew out.

I honestly don't know if this holds true for a modern electrical and EDIS system anymore. But I'd be vary warying of connecting and disconnecting a main power or ground cable while the car is running.

 

[autobahnsho]

Yes you can definitely mess some stuff up playing with electricity. Especially large amounts of electricity with components that aren't designed for a lot of juice.

UNPLUGGING the battery cable while the car is running shouldn't be a huge deal. (And I've done it with no damage.) The power from the alternator isn't as clean as the power from the battery, but the voltage regulator SHOULD keep it nice enough for the computer, etc...
-BUT if the voltage regulator is off, it could send too much/little power and mess up some electronics, or blow fuses.
-IF your alternator is bad and the car starts to run funny or shuts off, I would be QUICK to turn the key off.

I would avoid PLUGGING the battery back up when the car is running. You're adding a huge load to the alternator, which could be trouble. You gotta love those sparks, too!

***Keep in mind that I don't even have shade-tree mechanic certification yet, this is all done at your own risk..

 

[projectSHO89]

My shade-tree certification says that if you disconnect the battery cable from a running vehicle, it's like the line from the old, original Adventure game:

"It is pitch black. If you proceed, you will likely fall into a pit."

Avoid doing this. It risks damage to many electrical and electronic components.

Steve

 

[Off Road SHO]

Yes, disconnecting the battery on a running, new model car is not good. The battery act as a filter for spikes and dips in the current that the alternator produces.

There is a guage used to measure the amount and direction of current flow in a circuit. Mine is a Snap-On brand and you just place it over the alt-to-battery wire or the battery to engine compartment power distribution box. Not only does it tell you how many amps are going through the wire, but it also tells you which way the current is flowing. Very handy for diagnosing electrical gremlins.

Tom

 

['90 taurus SHO+]

Yeah, I try not to mess w/the battery when it is doing its thing. If you need any parts for your car (blower motor, alternator ect.) just send me a PM.