Diagnosing top engine tick

[haydenm315]

I've had a tick that I thought was the injectors since doing my maintenance. I am pretty sure it isn't the valve lash since I triple checked it. It was cold out that night and I'm the paranoia is setting in about temperature skewing my results somehow.

I went outside with a screwdriver and I swear it's the fuel injectors but I'm not sure. My screwdriver was too big to get in real deep on the injectors. I was able to touch the plastic plug area and hear a ticking noise that sounded in sync with my ticking but I could be lieing to myself, so I'd like to rip down the top again. Removing the oil fill cap didn't change the tick. I ran the driver all around the rear valve cover which seemed to tick slightly but the most noise seems to come from under the fuel rail somewhere. The tick is pretty pronounced when I have the hood up and am looking at the motor. It's definately not from the oil pan but I can hear it from down there. If I'm in the car with the windows down and there are no objects for sound to bounce off of, the tick isn't noticeable at idle or anywhere else. If there is a car next to me or something in front of me on my driveway or in a parking lot, I can hear it from inside the car at idle. At idle speed would a valve tick be slower or faster than the injector tick? sdpatt says 3 ticks per second on a fuel injector somewhere back there. Is a valve tick distinctly slower at idle than the injectors or does it depend on how many valves are ticking if there's more than one? What are the possibilities? Could someone record what their engine sounds like at idle with the hood up? Power from the engine is great, but how much will an incorrect lash affect performance?

<small>[ February 01, 2003, 06:18 AM: Message edited by: haydenm315 ]</small>

 

[projectSHO89]

First of all, spend about $5-10 and get a mechanic's stehoscope. It has a flexible hose and really amplifies the noises and makes it easier.

Pull the front passenger wheel, start the engine, and put the stethoscope on the center of the harmonic balance bolt. See if the ticking noise is most prominent there. If so, check back through past posts about "crank Cancer".

Hope it isn't, but it wouldn't hurt to make the check.

At any speed, the injector tick and the valve tick (if any) should remain exactly in sync. If you can filter out the injector noise by identifying it, you can then ignore it and see if you have additional ticking. At an idle speed of 750 RPM, each injector should be firing 6.25 times per second (750/60/2 rpm).

Steve

<small>[ February 01, 2003, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: projectSHO89 ]</small>

 

[haydenm315]

projectSHO89
First of all, spend about $5-10 and get a mechanic's stehoscope. It has a flexible hose and really amplifies the noises and makes it easier.

Hmm. I guess that tool goes right next to my inspection mirror. "How can you have a toolbox without an inspection mirror?"
Ahhh.. how the funny phrases of the pops stick in your head forever.

Pull the front passenger wheel, start the engine, and put the stethoscope on the center of the harmonic balance bolt. See if the ticking noise is most prominent there. If so, check back through past posts about "crank Cancer".

I've taken the occurance of crank cancer into account. I checked it with a screwdriver and didn't come up with a tick. I torqued my bolt down good, and it sure as **** hasn't gotten looser. I already checked it. When I did my 60k, I had to buy a new crank sprocket because my gifted friend decided to pull it off with a crowbar and bend the vane. This was after I gashed myself royally on the cam sprocket when breaking a bolt loose on the water pump. That was vicious and I've got a nice scar from that one. I checked the timing again before I put my upper timing cover on recently and it checked out fine.

At any speed, the injector tick and the valve tick (if any) should remain exactly in sync. If you can filter out the injector noise by identifying it, you can then ignore it and see if you have additional ticking. At an idle speed of 750 RPM, each injector should be firing 6.25 times per second (750/60/2 rpm).

Steve

Injectors and valve ticking is in sync? That's interesting.
Looks like the manifold is coming off again

 

[projectSHO89]

Injectors and valve ticking is in sync? That's interesting.

Just to clarify.... I didn't mean to imply that the tick from the injector occurs at the same time as any tick from a valve/shim being hit by the camshaft lobe.

What I did mean is there will be an injector firing occurance once per camshaft rotation. For each valve, the timing of the injector firing relative to the camshaft lobe making contact with the shim will remain synchronized - "in sync".

Steve

 

[haydenm315]

It seems like the ticking is a little bit louder if the car has warmed up some. I don't think this is good.

 

[AutoSHO]

haydenm315:
It seems like the ticking is a little bit louder if the car has warmed up some. I don't think this is good.

It is not uncommon for those new cams to wear in a bit and change the valve clearances. I'll bet you'll find all the valve clearances a little looser than what you had originally set them at.

 

[Xs SHO 1]

checked all the pulleys and belt tensioner?

 

[haydenm315]

AutoSHO:

haydenm315:
It seems like the ticking is a little bit louder if the car has warmed up some. I don't think this is good.

It is not uncommon for those new cams to wear in a bit and change the valve clearances. I'll bet you'll find all the valve clearances a little looser than what you had originally set them at.

When a motor warms up, I'd think the tolerances would get tighter from the metal expanding. Is this not the case? Am I thinking backwards. In any case, it's about time to pop that manifold off again. I'm glad I decided to keep the entire shim kit. At this point in time, I've got enough shims to satisfy a small army... so I hope.

 

[AutoSHO]

haydenm315:

AutoSHO:

haydenm315:
It seems like the ticking is a little bit louder if the car has warmed up some. I don't think this is good.

It is not uncommon for those new cams to wear in a bit and change the valve clearances. I'll bet you'll find all the valve clearances a little looser than what you had originally set them at.

When a motor warms up, I'd think the tolerances would get tighter from the metal expanding. Is this not the case? Am I thinking backwards. In any case, it's about time to pop that manifold off again. I'm glad I decided to keep the entire shim kit. At this point in time, I've got enough shims to satisfy a small army... so I hope.

Well, it is normal for the tolerances to get a bit smaller, BUT, your oil gets a lot thinner when it warms up. This is why loose rod bearings only make themselves apparent when the motor gets good and warm. IF yuo have the shims, then by all means, check the lash!

 

[haydenm315]

AutoSHO
Well, it is normal for the tolerances to get a bit smaller, BUT, your oil gets a lot thinner when it warms up. This is why loose rod bearings only make themselves apparent when the motor gets good and warm. IF yuo have the shims, then by all means, check the lash!

I hear ya. Weather channel says that it's gonna hit 31 degrees today with a wind chill of 19. I'll do it on the next 45 degree or more day. Some people have talked about the temperature making a difference in the measurements.

 

[haydenm315]

I finally got motivated enough to rip the top apart again. So far all of the intake lashes have been correct but a few of the exhaust were around .35mm so I adjusted accordingly. I found out that some of the valve cover bolts worked their way loose. This time I'm putting some removable thread lock on them to keep them in place. It looks like I lost one bolt for the rear valve cover. It's one of the shorter corner bolts. Does anybody know the size of this bolt or have an extra they could send me? Every time I've had to do something with a bolt on the motor it has been an odd size that's hard to find.