Couple Q's

[Montjoy]

Hey all. This seems like the best forum out there on the SHO, and I'm sure glad the account creation process is so quick -- I have some questions I'm hoping anyone on here can chip their $0.02 on.

I'm exploring 2013+ SHOs, but is there a model year that's widely regarded is being better/best? I have an '03 Crown Victoria PI that, had I known or done more research at the time, would have looked for a later year due to various upgrades, and don't want to make that mistake again.

Second, how's the reliability on these vehicles? Anything to look out for, especially at certain mileage intervals? I'd like to find as low mileage a used SHO as possible, possibly even considering new given the amount of incentives

And what's the maintenance like? Is the ecoboost V6 accessible enough to do anything yourself, even basic stuff like plugs, etc.? How much are oil changes and other routine maintenance items running people at the dealership? At a private mechanic?

What are other things I need to look out for, especially on used ones anywhere from 10-30k miles? Any takeaways you would want to pass on, or that you would've done differently?

And for the fun stuff, seems like Livernois is the main vendor/operator here, so is a tune, stat, turbo mapping (is that correct?) and intake the best starting point? Would consider exhaust down the road as well, but maybe not until after the warranty is up? Any widely-accepted user power numbers? Would also be curious if anyone has legit 0-60, rolling start and quarter times as well.

If you made it this far, thanks for taking the time and indulging my curiosity!

 

[krewat]

The 2013 through 2016 (that I know of) and probably all the way through the end-of-the-line, whenever that is, maybe 2019, are essentially the same.

Differences:

Sync 3 introduced in 2016 - While I never had major problem with the Sync 2 in my 2013, Sync 3 is far better in too many ways to list here.

PTU - I think there are revisions to the design of the PTU from time-to-time, but I don't think they are really necessary to enjoy. Just keep the fluid changed. I'm also not sure if it was the Performance Package version of the PTU that changed versus the non-cooled one.

In all years from 2013, the Performance Package adds a cooled PTU, oil cooler, larger radiator(?) and different intercooler(?). And better brakes.

So far, I've only leased the 2013 and the 2016, but I'm on the edge about buying my 2016 at end-of-lease, or going for another PP before they stop making them and then keeping THAT one.

As to the rest of your questions, I'm sure there will be replies here soon. I do my own oil changes, and have yet to get near the plugs but I hear they aren't all that bad.

 

[bpd1151]

PTO - I think there are revisions to the design of the PTO from time-to-time, but I don't think they are really necessary to enjoy. Just keep the fluid changed. I'm also not sure if it was the Performance Package version of the PTO that changed versus the non-cooled one.

PTU, not PTO.

I mention only because of the OP being a potential new owner.

Not because of any desire to be a spelling ****.

Good starting list though.

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[krewat]

Derp, too much time spent on that truck site

 

[bpd1151]

Hey all. This seems like the best forum out there on the SHO, and I'm sure glad the account creation process is so quick -- I have some questions I'm hoping anyone on here can chip their $0.02 on.

I'm exploring 2013+ SHOs, but is there a model year that's widely regarded is being better/best? I have an '03 Crown Victoria PI that, had I known or done more research at the time, would have looked for a later year due to various upgrades, and don't want to make that mistake again.

Overall, there isn't a "better" model year per se. As with any subsequent model year release, inherently there are improvements conducted.

Some desire the "PP Equipped" packages, as those have grown to include more toys over the "Non-PP" models. Most notably, the addition of the all the auxiliary coolers.

Before the 2013's came out (significant changes across the board) there was essentially very little difference between the 2 packages. In fact, the Non-PP versions, once tuned, proved to be faster in the 1/4.

Second, how's the reliability on these vehicles? Anything to look out for, especially at certain mileage intervals? I'd like to find as low mileage a used SHO as possible, possibly even considering new given the amount of incentives

There are known component failures. Seems most of this is caused as a result of a poor maintenance regimen. In rarer instances, factory related, or vendor related quirks. The PTU is one of the bigger ones. There have also been issues with oil supply/return lines to each turbo, but after several revisions, this seems to be becoming a lesser spoken of issue. Few reports of diaphragm failures on the electric BOV's, but not terribly common. Ummm, oh idk..... sure others will expound as they see fit.

And what's the maintenance like? Is the ecoboost V6 accessible enough to do anything yourself, even basic stuff like plugs, etc.? How much are oil changes and other routine maintenance items running people at the dealership? At a private mechanic?

Plugs, oil changes, trans fluid changes, even the RDU as well as the PTU are all relatively easy. Access to a lift is helpful for these, but can be done on car ramps. I can't stress the following enough....... CHANGE YOUR FLUIDS! Do it right out of the gate, and keep doing them. I do all my own when time permits. So not sure on what others may be paying to have done. I would imagine the prices vary drastically. Anyhow, I do oil every 3-3.5k full synthetic. Trans and PTU I do twice a year. Regardless of mileage. Once in Spring, once in Fall. RDU I've relegated to once a year, but used to do it twice. Plugs around every 15-20k. Especially being tuned. Granted I'm likely on the extreme end of the spectrum, but my SHO's a long time keeper, so it's getting top notch service.

What are other things I need to look out for, especially on used ones anywhere from 10-30k miles? Any takeaways you would want to pass on, or that you would've done differently?

And for the fun stuff, seems like Livernois is the main vendor/operator here, so is a tune, stat, turbo mapping (is that correct?) and intake the best starting point? Would consider exhaust down the road as well, but maybe not until after the warranty is up? Any widely-accepted user power numbers? Would also be curious if anyone has legit 0-60, rolling start and quarter times as well.

If you made it this far, thanks for taking the time and indulging my curiosity!

No other suggestions on what to look for when buying used, especially since I bought mine new. Maybe others can help in that arena.

As far as tuners......

Livernois Motorsports has been the stalwart of the EB Community, and have heavily invested in the platform, by offering much more than just tuning..... Motors, HPFP's, Meth kits, Exhaust, and on and on.

There's also Unleashed Tuning and their customers enjoy the ability to datalog and recieve revisions as needed.

There are others as well, spread across the country. Some who've reported good results, others who've reported blown engines. Yikes.

Another newbie (term used loosely) to the tuning realm is a vendor named AJPTurbo. Brad by real life. He has had some very happy customers as well.

In closing, most of us don't wait until warranty is up to start modding. An always hotly debated topic, but as others will likely say, Ford left a LOT on the table with this platform. So modding it turns it into a whole 'nother beast. Especially with a tune alone. So don't wait to enjoy the animal lurking within another words.

Good luck in your quest!



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[SilverSH0]

For me, I would always look for any minor appearing electrical gremlins (down to things as simple as switches not working) to any oil from the engine. Electrical problems quickly add up and often are complex if you don't understand all the wiring in these cars. I would also check for oil from the PTU, turbos (especially rear), intercooler piping, and transmission area.

I wouldn't rank these cars are particularly reliable but I wouldn't rank them as terrible. They are pretty middle of the road where stuff is going to break on them and you just accept it. If you're used to parts prices from a Crown Vic, prepare for sticker shock on the SHO as parts are more expensive. I haven't found anything on the SHO to be terrible in terms of replacement. Get high enough jack stands and you can do just about anything. I believe that someone has even removed the entire engine out the bottom with a jack and jack stands.

 

[krewat]

Also, another thing to think about if you get an earlier one. Have a dealer hook it up and update all firmware. My very early 2013 (manufactured in March 2012) had a GPS bug that you'd be driving along a street, and the Nav system would show I was in the woods - literally Sometimes a few hundred feet.

It also had a really bad "no acceleration" bug - like, hit it trying to get out into traffic, and it would just sit there for like 3 seconds before it decided to GO. A new PCM calibration fixed that (not related to the "let off in a turn, go to hit it again and it lags" thing).

ALSO - check for recalls. My 2013 needed the "fuel pump module" recall, and the axle shaft recall done. One day, I felt a vibration up front - the axle shaft was hanging out of the tranny.

 

[Jeff2017]

I can speak to oil changes as I only have 6600 miles on mine. It is a piece of cake to change the oil on these. The oil filter can be hand tightened. No need for a filter wrench. I think 2016 was the last year that offered the multi-contour seats. I have them and they are nice.

 

[Montjoy]

Wow! You guys are great!

Regarding fluid changes and maintenance intervals, do you generally feel following factory guidelines to a T will keep you in the clear, or is changing oil at 3500 miles, for example, absolutely necessary?

And how much extra should a PP be vs. a non-PP for these later models, would you think? For this example let's say it's the same car mileage/condition-wise. I like the idea of the PP's options, including the look of the flower rims, but I wouldn't know how much more to expect to pay, per se.

Thanks to everyone for weighing in -- if there are any tips you'd also have specifically about negotiating buying one of these at a dealer, or even if anyone is willing to provide what they paid for the sake of context it would be much appreciated -- though not at all expected. Just trying to get a frame of reference here.

 

[rubydist]

In this part of the country, the NADA prices are about a grand high compared to the actual market. That may or may not be the case where you are.

How often you change the fluids depends a great deal on how you drive the vehicle. I have done extensive oil testing with Blackstone, and Mobil1 for example is perfectly fine at 10k miles oil change interval for a daily driver. If you track it, etc. that is a different matter which falls under the "cheap insurance" category.

 

[SilverSH0]

I imagine you'll get vastly different answers on oil intervals. I change my engine oil every 3k miles. I do it because it's only $40 and I would rather waste $40 changing early than sludge up the oil. I'm not saying that's the correct way, only the way I do it.

I change my PTU and RDU fluid every winter. I also drain the transmission pan oil and refill every winter. When I bought my car I changed the transmission and PTU fluid multiple times in short succession to get mostly new fluid in them and now I just replace what I can get out.

If you're buying from a dealer I doubt there will be any difference between PP and NON-PP. In my experience, they don't even know what version it is. They Stimpy know it's A SHO.

 

[Spootcat]

Hey all. This seems like the best forum out there on the SHO, and I'm sure glad the account creation process is so quick -- I have some questions I'm hoping anyone on here can chip their $0.02 on.

I'm exploring 2013+ SHOs, but is there a model year that's widely regarded is being better/best? I have an '03 Crown Victoria PI that, had I known or done more research at the time, would have looked for a later year due to various upgrades, and don't want to make that mistake again.

Second, how's the reliability on these vehicles? Anything to look out for, especially at certain mileage intervals? I'd like to find as low mileage a used SHO as possible, possibly even considering new given the amount of incentives

And what's the maintenance like? Is the ecoboost V6 accessible enough to do anything yourself, even basic stuff like plugs, etc.? How much are oil changes and other routine maintenance items running people at the dealership? At a private mechanic?

What are other things I need to look out for, especially on used ones anywhere from 10-30k miles? Any takeaways you would want to pass on, or that you would've done differently?

And for the fun stuff, seems like Livernois is the main vendor/operator here, so is a tune, stat, turbo mapping (is that correct?) and intake the best starting point? Would consider exhaust down the road as well, but maybe not until after the warranty is up? Any widely-accepted user power numbers? Would also be curious if anyone has legit 0-60, rolling start and quarter times as well.

If you made it this far, thanks for taking the time and indulging my curiosity!

I bought mine new, but a year old. I looked for cars sitting on lots for about a year and sent emails saying what I wanted to pay and within a couple of months had a dealer get close enough. Got all of the desired options, but had to give on color. It was a painless transaction. Also, couple of internet ford dealers that have good pricing on the warranty if you want to get extended coverage. You can get quotes online and if the dealer will match, great, if not, you can buy directly from them. I think I got mine through flood ford. The tune vs. warranty is the only thing that keeps me up at night (not really), it's been a great car and wicked fun to drive. Bought it this spring and already have over 13k miles. It's also nice of you live near a Costco with a gas station. About $.30 less for the good stuff than anywhere else in town.

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[OmaHahn]

Trans and PTU I do twice a year. Regardless of mileage. Once in Spring, once in Fall. RDU I've relegated to once a year, but used to do it twice. Plugs around every 15-20k. Especially being tuned. Granted I'm likely on the extreme end of the spectrum, but my SHO's a long time keeper, so it's getting top notch service.

Do you seriously do Trans and PTU twice a year?? Holy Moly! Is your car a PP? I thought the PP cars were a nightmare to change fluid in the PTU...?

 

[SilverSH0]

Do you seriously do Trans and PTU twice a year?? Holy Moly! Is your car a PP? I thought the PP cars were a nightmare to change fluid in the PTU...?

If I remember correctly, his car is a non-PP. I say this because I remember reading one of his threads where he retrofitted the PTU cooler into his car. Changing the PTU fluid is pretty easy: remove plug, pump out fluid, pump in fluid, replace plug. It probably takes me about 10 minutes to change with a second person (to guide in the long extension chain for plug removal).

 

[OmaHahn]

If I remember correctly the PP cars PTU don't have drain plugs and you have to get to the fill hole and suck out - and the problem with PP cars is the water cooled PTU lines are in the way - pretty labor intensive. Am I correct or did I confuse this with something else?

 

[SHOdded]

bpd has a non-PP 2010. Did not retrofit a PTU cooler but rather trans and engine oil coolers.

Only 2013 PP cars have cooled/monitored PTUs. That includes the XSport, likely the Flex, and also the Interceptors.

 

[bpd1151]

Again, Manu is correct.

Yes. Yes. And yes.

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[shoenough]

Hey all. This seems like the best forum out there on the SHO, and I'm sure glad the account creation process is so quick -- I have some questions I'm hoping anyone on here can chip their $0.02 on.

I'm exploring 2013+ SHOs, but is there a model year that's widely regarded is being better/best? I have an '03 Crown Victoria PI that, had I known or done more research at the time, would have looked for a later year due to various upgrades, and don't want to make that mistake again.

This is my first post here but couldn't help but chime in - I had an 05 CVPI... great minds must think alike!

Second, how's the reliability on these vehicles? Anything to look out for, especially at certain mileage intervals? I'd like to find as low mileage a used SHO as possible, possibly even considering new given the amount of incentives

I'm a relative newb to the SHO (only had my 2014 for a few months) so I don't have much to add here but coming from a CVPI I will mention that I opted for the Performance Package given the extra coolers, larger brakes etc.. I lurked these forums for several weeks before deciding to pursue Performance Package only SHO's. I don't think additional cooling can be a bad thing. I also have yet to experience brake fade which I can't say for any other vehicle I've ever owned.

Regarding new versus used - the new inventory around me was severely lacking. The used market actually had significantly more options. I'm the type that does spreadsheets to calculate depreciation etc... and these cars definitely take a pretty significant depreciation hit which makes used a great value IMO. I guess it depends on how large of incentives you're talking.

And what's the maintenance like? Is the ecoboost V6 accessible enough to do anything yourself, even basic stuff like plugs, etc.? How much are oil changes and other routine maintenance items running people at the dealership? At a private mechanic?

What are other things I need to look out for, especially on used ones anywhere from 10-30k miles? Any takeaways you would want to pass on, or that you would've done differently?

And for the fun stuff, seems like Livernois is the main vendor/operator here, so is a tune, stat, turbo mapping (is that correct?) and intake the best starting point? Would consider exhaust down the road as well, but maybe not until after the warranty is up? Any widely-accepted user power numbers? Would also be curious if anyone has legit 0-60, rolling start and quarter times as well.

If you made it this far, thanks for taking the time and indulging my curiosity!

Can't speak to maintenance beyond oil changes yet but I will say the room under the hood is the same or better than most vehicles I've been around lately. I opted for CPO given the direct injection + twin turbos + AWD. I wouldn't trust a private mechanic with any significant powertrain work unless I know they're intimately familiar with it OR the car is at least a decade old. But that's just me.

Interested in seeing which route you choose to go!

 

[Lostneye]

Welcome! I had a couple CVPIs as well. Some good info already. A tune, thermostat and 3bar MAP are the best bang for the buck. Intake sound nice but doesn't offer much some would say they may even hurt performance. Those mods and good air should get you into the 12s. These cars do better from a dig IMHO since the AWD will help them hook compared to some faster cars.

 

[Sgtmeatsauce1]

I looked foe a 2013 or newer car when I was looking specifically for the revisions and a PP for the coolers and better brakes. I use Castrol Magnatec, from Walmart 19 bucks a jug oF 5 qts. I buy 2 since it needs a bit more. I use some more since I drive like stolen and it will use a qt or 2 between changes at 5 or 6,000 miles. I go by color, never black, but start not to see through it I change it. So roughly 3,000 to 6000 miles. Use only a MC FL500S filter for you timing chain issue. I have the PP and I added the pigtail on the PTU so changing is easy. I use Amsoil **** for that. Best bang for the buck is a tune n 3 bar maf. Easy to change back. VERY happy with AJPTURBO BRAD custom tune and revisions. Tires are important, the PP was spec'd with summer tires, mine can with all seasons , bought car CPO used. I live near Philadelphia pa, the market was 6,000 MORE near philly, 75 miles away the avg cost was 5 to 6,000 less. When I was buying the avg cpo 2013 SHO was around 31,000 on a 49,000 car. 75 miles away from Philadelphia avg cpo pp car was 26,000. I got mine for 25,500 2 or 3 years ago. I would even drive this car without the tune n 3 bar....there is SO MUCH hidden potential it is half a car without it. I or a local mechanic do all the work on my car so warranty not really an issue. This is becoming my fav car. My G8 GT FBO was is my favorite, but tuned with awd is a blast and summer tires really help with that. I can beat hellcats to 60....