Clutch chatter?

[SHOWYA]

Well, got the 3.2 running. without a problem. Have to do some tweecing to get it to idle correctly. Anyway.

My problem is that after i got the car started i wanted to move it afterwards and it was hard to get it in gear. Even when i did (no grinding) and started to release the clutch slightly it almost sounded like the gear was grinding. The car began to move forward but after hearing that sound i but the clutch back in.

I thought of my shifter be wrong. but when i turn off the car the gears go in without a problem. It seems that the gears are engaging correctly.

Is this a possible missalignment of the clutch. has anyone else experience this before? I did have a hot spot on the pressure plate and flywheel disc insert.

... few pics of me finalizing the car earlier....

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

does it slip into gear fine when the car is not running?

If so, you have clutch issues.

If not, you have shifter alignment issues, or trans. issues.

 

[SHOWYA]

The clutch was good it was in good condition when i spun a bearing. I did clean the surfaces on the plate and flywheel.

The gears go in fine when the car is off which should mean that the shifter is ok.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

sounds like it isnt disengaging all the way then.

Double check your clutch cable connection at the trans, and be sure the clutch cable auto-tensioner is working correctly.

BTW, the SHO looks great

 

[revhardSHO]

So long as you were able to get the transmission input shaft through the clutch assembly, missalignment is a non-issue. Because the first time you push the clutch in, your friction disk will line itself up.

Did you use the proper torque specs on the flywheel and pressure plate?
Did you get the flywheel turned?
Locktite?
What brand of clutch is this?
Are you using the rev. B TOB?

Once again, nice looking car.

 

[TYSHO]

it almost sounded like the gear was grinding.

So, is it chatter or grinding?

 

[Ishodu]

What clutch?

 

[SHOWYA]

So long as you were able to get the transmission input shaft through the clutch assembly, missalignment is a non-issue. Because the first time you push the clutch in, your friction disk will line itself up.

Did you use the proper torque specs on the flywheel and pressure plate?
Did you get the flywheel turned?
Locktite?
What brand of clutch is this?
Are you using the rev. B TOB?

Once again, nice looking car.

Everything was torqued to spec.

SPEC stg2 and SPEC 8lb flywheel .... flywheel has insert.

TOB was new the first time i installed it. everything looked good when i put it together.

Locktite on flywheel bolts ... non on clutch since it has the locking washers. i did manage to strip 2 holes on the flywheel when bolting on the pressure plate. i locktited thos 2( bolts where in exact oposites - straight line from each other across the pressure plate-) after retaping the holes.

cable is good.

 

[TYSHO]

Again, is it chatter or grinding? Those are two complete different animals!

 

[shojuan]

Maybe this will help: I finished up with my car last night and fired it up for the first time. I also installed a new Spec stage 2 clutch and shoshop 8 lb flywheel. I rebuilt the tranny with a Quaife and all new syncros and syncro blocking rings I tracked down when they went obsolete some time ago hehehe. Anyways, I couldn't get the car into first...sometimes not into any gear. I think my adjuster mechanism might be flaky or non-functional but I think the problem might have been more the fact that I didn't clean the packing grease completely from the new syncros. Josh didn't in his video, just straight from sealed packages, dipped into ATF and installed so I did the same cuz it would've been a pain to degrease 'em at 2AM in the cold, while tired. Anyways, the syncros were quite a bit more difficult to shift by hand than the originals.

My theory is that the packing grease was causing a lot of the troubles. Gotta get the car moving to circulate fluid through up the funnels. Syncros gotta get fresh clean oil to help flush away the packing grease. Can't get the car moving until the syncros start working. A catch 22. I let the car warm up for about 30 minutes total. Then just forcefully shifted into first and went for it. No grinding doing that. ****, trying to be gentle during the previous 30 minutes and had several periods with mucho grinding of reverse and some of a few other gears. Gee, nice welcome into the world for brand new syncros including the one with one of the reverse gears on it.

Well 30 minutes to melt off some of the packing grease is what I'm thinking. I got my head under the pedal to try to figure out the adjuster quadrant because I've heard of folks adjusting it by prying on something with a screwdriver or some such thing. Couldn't really figure it out. It was late, cold, and dark.

Well, once I just forced it into first and went for it, at the first stop sign about 75 feet away it seemed to shift ok. By the end of town (a mile and a few stops) it was shifting pretty well. Notchy but pretty good. After about 10 miles it seemed as good as it was before the rebuild. Took a 30 mile round trip beer run and it was shifting like butter by the time I got home.

BTW, the clutch is great. Light clutch pedal. Smooth with no grabbing and no chatter. Not once. I had my SS flywheel blanchard ground for $20 before installing. The finish it came with licked balls. Idle isn't rough in the least, I notice no negative change whatsoever. Everything positive. No compromises in my book. And I'm a go easy on the clutch, like a light pedal, would never get a stage 5 type of clutch kind of guy. I got 115,000 miles out of the last stocker. And that's with a Rev A TOB...no quill sleeve. No broken PP fingers. Actually very little wear on the PP fingers. The clutch wasn't slipping when I replaced it. The pedal was heavy, that's it. Only a few thou of lining left 'til the rivets though. It was time...I said that 2 years ago too LOL!

Hope this helps.

 

[TYSHO]

but I think the problem might have been more the fact that I didn't clean the packing grease completely from the new syncros. Josh didn't in his video, just straight from sealed packages, dipped into ATF and installed so I did the same cuz it would've been a pain to degrease 'em at 2AM in the cold, while tired. Anyways, the syncros were quite a bit more difficult to shift by hand than the originals.

That is some gooey stuff there and I think you go some with a crap load! Not all of them are like that, as some come with a very thin layer. I believe they put the grease goo there to hold the synchro in place so it wont fall apart when you take it out of the package.

 

[shojuan]

does it slip into gear fine when the car is not running?

Yup.

If so, you have clutch issues.

Believe me, I had visions of having to pull the tranny last night. Fortunately I didn't freak out about it. Another theory I have compared to what I wrote above is that perhaps the outer layer of lining on the Spec stage 2 needs to wear away. I didn't take pictures or take notes but it seemed like the lining had two layers with the outer layer looking like some kind of fragile crap.

If not, you have shifter alignment issues, or trans. issues.

Also had those thoughts with mine. In fact the first thing I thought was maybe the hitch pin I used to secure the forward/backward cable end on its ball was causing problems. I couldn't find the clip that I imagine should be there. I bagged and tagged everything but don't remember removing a clip from that. Either I misplaced the bag or there was no clip installed and mine simply hasn't popped off in 200,000 miles of service (or perhaps the technician who did the 85,000 mile clutch job lost it! He broke my backup switch harness connector on one side...although it stays/has stayed in fine with a friction fit. At least I didn't find any stripped bolt holes.)

In any event Kenny's words are true but that doesn't mean doom and gloom or that the fix isn't something super simple or even self fixing.

Hope your Spec 2/8lb flywheel works as well as mine. I got the extra 6 pounds (albeit with small rotational radius) gained from the Quaife that perhaps helped avoid any compromises to street friendly, **** GRANNY friendly manners that have been mentioned by some experienced folks whose opinions I respect.

BTW, I was going to do a first fill with redline D4 but finally decided to follow Mark Nunnally's advice and do the first 1000 miles on plain, from the dealer, $2.35/qt Ford Mercon/Dexron III. I used D4 for soaking and assembly and then decided to save the rest of my D4 for later when I was done. It is NOT a theory of mine that soaking the rings in D4 and filling with Mercon was causing the problems that kept me from driving my freshened SHO for an hour (30 minutes of running the engine and time taken for a break to eat, ***, and plan my next move.)

 

[shojuan]

That is some gooey stuff there and I think you go some with a crap load! Not all of them are like that, as some come with a very thin layer. I believe they put the grease goo there to hold the synchro in place so it wont fall apart when you take it out of the package.

Yeah, there was a lot. It's nasty stuff. Add to that all the packing grease left in the innards of the Quaife...I removed the stuff on the Quaife's outers. At least where it mattered. It's really not pleasant at all using brake cleaner, acetone, and Berryman's when it's 32 degrees out. It doesn't evaporate before your eyes like in the sun of course. I get stingy with the air compressor in the wee hours because I don't feel like being *that* mean to the neighbors renting the nearby appartments that overlook my garage and back parking area...plus my backyard. I told them I wanted them to put in a 12 foot fence when they built that damn building! Oh, and evaporating solvent liberates heat from metal just as well when it's 32 degrees as when it's 82. Frozen metal, freezing my paws and condensing corrosion causing moisture (if I don't see it at 2am I'll daydream that it's happening...j/k but not completely), then putting the parts under hot lamps to raise the dewpoint local to the warming metal...Bad enough cleaning the original parts, still in fine shape at 200,000 miles. It didn't take many excuses to keep me from repeating for the new parts with that nasty factory goo.

I've got somewhere between 150 and 200 miles on it since last night. 50 miles of basic "gotta do those first break-in miles to make sure" last night and took the wife down to Big Sur today since I've been neglecting her for the past couple of months. World's slowest amateur mechanic here. For every hour I planned I took 6. At least. Cleaning bolts, washing dirt and chicken crap off my driveway so it wouldn't blow into my exposed motor during rod bearing replacement...and not having enough time left to get started on the rod bearings that day or night...don't ask me to count how many times I screwed myself over by squandering precious time that way. ****, I spent hours stewing over what would be the best grease to use for my clutch TOB shaft bushings. Used my nasty thick n sticky teflon fortified silicone grease I use on my suspension bushings. It's so sticky it could qualify as glue rather than a lubricant. It's so viscuous I doubt its flow can be measured. It will stay put and last, or so I hope. Dampen noise better than other grease I reasoned. Keep the TOB fork from moving of its own will. Sure it takes more effort to move the lever by hand with the tranny out but that additional force requirement is insignicant to the force of the foot to the floor and the the fingers pushing back....**** the grease sticktion might be working for me on the pedal upstroke. Another insignificant detail. And I even had a backup plan in case that grease didn't work out. By luck I discovered that ATF is the best way to clean that grease off something. Seriously, it is really hard to get off the paws....although permatex fast orange cleaner turns out to work pretty good too. Well, a few drops of ATF mixed with my sticky teflon silicone grease becomes very slick. Some on the felt washer to work down into the top bushing, and using a mirror and fishing a semi-rigid bendable hose through the hole for the starter pinion to get a few drops of ATF on the shaft above the bottom bushing...that was my backup plan for a grease decision gone bad to save from pulling the tranny. Well, my crazy reasoning worked out and the grease works great and it should last a long long time. But the hours stewing over it, well, I'm only getting older and those hours are gone. Another way to look at it is the ridiculously slow pace at which I worked has pretty much gotten me through all of winter. I put the car on jackstands on X-mas Eve I believe.

Oops, book writing again and should save it for another thread.

Nasty packing grease, yes yes. Very nasty factory packing grease.

 

[TYSHO]

Yeah, there was a lot. It's nasty stuff. Add to that all the packing grease left in the innards of the Quaife...I removed the stuff on the Quaife's outers. At least where it mattered. It's really not pleasant at all using brake cleaner, acetone, and Berryman's when it's 32 degrees out. It doesn't evaporate before your eyes like in the sun of course. I get stingy with the air compressor in the wee hours because I don't feel like being *that* mean to the neighbors renting the nearby appartments that overlook my garage and back parking area...plus my backyard. I told them I wanted them to put in a 12 foot fence when they built that damn building! Oh, and evaporating solvent liberates heat from metal just as well when it's 32 degrees as when it's 82. Frozen metal, freezing my paws and condensing corrosion causing moisture (if I don't see it at 2am I'll daydream that it's happening...j/k but not completely), then putting the parts under hot lamps to raise the dewpoint local to the warming metal...Bad enough cleaning the original parts, still in fine shape at 200,000 miles. It didn't take many excuses to keep me from repeating for the new parts with that nasty factory goo.

I've got somewhere between 150 and 200 miles on it since last night. 50 miles of basic "gotta do those first break-in miles to make sure" last night and took the wife down to Big Sur today since I've been neglecting her for the past couple of months. World's slowest amateur mechanic here. For every hour I planned I took 6. At least. Cleaning bolts, washing dirt and chicken crap off my driveway so it wouldn't blow into my exposed motor during rod bearing replacement...and not having enough time left to get started on the rod bearings that day or night...don't ask me to count how many times I screwed myself over by squandering precious time that way. ****, I spent hours stewing over what would be the best grease to use for my clutch TOB shaft bushings. Used my nasty thick n sticky teflon fortified silicone grease I use on my suspension bushings. It's so sticky it could qualify as glue rather than a lubricant. It's so viscuous I doubt its flow can be measured. It will stay put and last, or so I hope. Dampen noise better than other grease I reasoned. Keep the TOB fork from moving of its own will. Sure it takes more effort to move the lever by hand with the tranny out but that additional force requirement is insignicant to the force of the foot to the floor and the the fingers pushing back....**** the grease sticktion might be working for me on the pedal upstroke. Another insignificant detail. And I even had a backup plan in case that grease didn't work out. By luck I discovered that ATF is the best way to clean that grease off something. Seriously, it is really hard to get off the paws....although permatex fast orange cleaner turns out to work pretty good too. Well, a few drops of ATF mixed with my sticky teflon silicone grease becomes very slick. Some on the felt washer to work down into the top bushing, and using a mirror and fishing a semi-rigid bendable hose through the hole for the starter pinion to get a few drops of ATF on the shaft above the bottom bushing...that was my backup plan for a grease decision gone bad to save from pulling the tranny. Well, my crazy reasoning worked out and the grease works great and it should last a long long time. But the hours stewing over it, well, I'm only getting older and those hours are gone. Another way to look at it is the ridiculously slow pace at which I worked has pretty much gotten me through all of winter. I put the car on jackstands on X-mas Eve I believe.

Oops, book writing again and should save it for another thread.

Nasty packing grease, yes yes. Very nasty factory packing grease.

Somebody get this man a beer!

After reading through all of this, I now know why it took you so long, you brainstorm to the extreme and beyond!

But yeah, I read your whole post and am glad you got your X-mas project done!

 

[5SpdSHO]

I think I might be having a simmilar problem. When the clutch pedal is down everything is nice and quiet but as soon as I lift off of it it makes a grinding type noise. I can shift into all gears smoothly and everything drives fine with the exception of the clutch noise.

 

[SHOWYA]

Again, is it chatter or grinding? Those are two complete different animals!

Im sure its not grinding.

It 'ALMOST' sounds like a grind(im not exactly sure what a chatter is but like i said before its not grinding because of the following). I can force the gear in and when that happens the car moves a bit like the clutch is not fully engaged ... at this point the tranny has not made a sound. When i start slowly letting go of the clutch is when it starts making the sound.

To think about it i may need some more tranny fluid. I know i spilled some when i took of the tranny. I added a bottle of syncromesh but it never overflowed form the tranny fill plug. I may have spilled more than what i thought i did when i removed the tranny. Maybe fluid is my problem. I will filler up some more tonight.

 

[TYSHO]

It 'ALMOST' sounds like a grind(im not exactly sure what a chatter is but like i said before its not grinding because of the following). I can force the gear in and when that happens the car moves a bit like the clutch is not fully engaged ... at this point the tranny has not made a sound. When i start slowly letting go of the clutch is when it starts making the sound.

Chatter is the sound like your teeth chattering when you're real cold. What it sounds like is that you're getting into gear with a little crunch [clutch not fully dis-engaging] and once you put it in gear it pops out and grinds. Have you tried to drive it, or did you just call it quits when you heard the grind? If it grinds and goes nowhere, the gear is popping out and can be a shift linkage problem or transmission.

 

[revhardSHO]

You should always use locktite (blue) on the pressure plate - to - flywheel bolts. It is to be used in combination with the lock washers. IF you did strip a couple out, your pressure plate might be (coming) loose and or distorted because of it, and that would cause hard shifting.

Edit: I just read the last couple posts: It sounds like you definitly have a clutch issue. My 89 had the same exact symptoms and it turned out the pressure plate was coming loose. And if you stripped a PP bolt, that would make it alot weaker.

 

[SHOWYA]

You should always use locktite (blue) on the pressure plate - to - flywheel bolts. It is to be used in combination with the lock washers. IF you did strip a couple out, your pressure plate might be (coming) loose and or distorted because of it, and that would cause hard shifting.

Edit: I just read the last couple posts: It sounds like you definitly have a clutch issue. My 89 had the same exact symptoms and it turned out the pressure plate was coming loose. And if you stripped a PP bolt, that would make it alot weaker.

Alright sounds like the pressure plate is the problem, so ill have to send out the pressure plate to get another set of holes. i dont think you can save those holes on aluminum unless i can tap further in and use a longer bolt.

From what i experienced today it seemed like it was the TOB. I kept pumping the clutch pedal and it started making less and less noise, not sure if the TOB was ' re - braking in ' ... i have attached alink of a small vid i took with my camera phone so you can hear the noise. No noise when pedal in ... noise starts getting loud as clutch pedal is almost all the way out.

VID ABOUT 4MB

http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/Video024.mp4

 

[sho'd]

i don't have amy input on the clutch issue, just wanted to say that is one **** of a nice looking SHO, man i wish mine looked like that, one day. Love the engine bay.