CircleTrack SHO

[CircleTrackSHO]

This was originally posted in the "Welcome Forum" but since the discussion was veering off into a technical discussion, I thought I'd offer it up over here:

Good Morning Everyone...

My name is Patrick McNamara, I'm the Director of the Community Racing Challenge and I'm also the driver of the #6 Bob Frahm Ford Taurus SHO.

We race on Friday Nights at Spartan Speedway in Lansing, Mi and on Saturday Nights at Springport Motor Speedway in Springport, MI just outside Eaton Rapids.

The Bob Frahm Community Racing Challenge mission statement is : To provide meaningful support to local non-profit organizations in the form of fund raising and team building events which will not only foster new interest in local short track racing, but enhance the relationship between drivers, owners, local businesses and the citizens of our community.

We race in the Pure Stock Class at both tracks. This class of racing puts V-8 RWD cars and V-6 FWD cars on the track at the same time and against each other. The rules severely limit the performance modifications you can "legally" make to the cars and good V-6 run very competitively versus the V-8s.

I joined this forum today because I am new to the SHO. Previously, I was racing a Pontiac Grand Prix. Last night (6/2/007) I ran my first race in a SHO we had purchased from a Wisconsin Short Tracker.

Well let me tell you, WOW!, was I blown away by the performance of this car. I absolutely blown away by my qualifying time (lowered by nearly a second) and the straight away power this car/motor produced.

I uploaded a video of my first SHO race on YouTube.

However... as good as this car is in a straight line, it plows like a dump truck in the corners. I've spent a good part of the morning (last 3 hours) searching the SHOForum for handling tips and most of it is for autocrossers, drag racers and/or street performance tips.

I'm hoping to find some Circle Track Racers who will help me dial this baby in so we can get through the corners.

EDIT : Thanks for the welcome guys.. and yes, it is a load of fun, the car was great first night out and I'm really looking forward to going from checkered flag heat wins to checkered flag feature wins.

The car is a 92 SHO ATX. We have to run the ATX.

Motor Mods have been limited to a Diablo Chip.. it was installed by the previous owner.. It has a 1-none-2 3-way switch on the dash.. to tell the truth, I don't know what it does or how to work it.

Suspension Mods, I put the max caster/camber in that I could get. The spring is nearly rubbing the back and inside of the car.. but I'd be surprised if I get more then 1.5% camber at Zero and maybe 3% at max wheel turn. I know I need more camber.. fast cars run 8%, don't know how to get there.

There is no upper strut tower bar on the car.. I heard they came stock on SHO's.. can anyone confirm ? If it was stock, I can run it, if not, I can't.

The lower sway bar is stock.

The rear sway bar is gone... the previous owner was required to take it off at his home track.. we can run a rear sway bar.. I'm heading to the salvage yard to get one this week unless you all give me a better option. I know I should have it.. at least I think I should.

Car weighed 3044# with a full fuel load and my 205# in the seat.

When making these suggestions.. keep the rules in mind, but don't let them limit your thoughts. As Capt Jack Sparrow would say.. they aren't so much rules as they are "guidelines".. and well, I'm a Pirate.

I'd like to focus my mods and $$ on turning.. if you've watched the video, you can see I already have enough motor to run with and run down the V-8's, but I can't get in, through or out of the turns..

 

[Toolman]

That is some serious weight reduction! 2750lbs dry!! I bet it pulls real nice! Figure your cage is what 175-200lbs? Stock ATX (BTW, no ATX's in 92, so it must be a 93,94 or 95) is around 3600lbs. So you lost over 1000lbs?? Are the doors just skins? Impressive.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

Welcome Pat.

Sounds like your having fun already

As for suggestions....


For starters, ditch the chip. More than likely it is doing more harm than good. There is very little engine performance gain to be had with a chip. And if it is better shifts (having an ATX) you are after, look to proper chip. There are a few folks here on the forum that could help in that department. Namely, Adam (axianator). Last I heard, he had gotten his LPM (lifetime performance module) programming setup off the ground. And as for tuning, his work is top notch. He really knows his stuff.

Strut tower braces did NOT come factory.

I would certainly toss a sway bar under the rear of that thing. It must feel like driving a soggy fish around the track without one! Not only will it help you keep the rear of the car flat, it will also help that lovely understeer you speak of.

 

[hawkeye18]

you're running with no rear sway bar? My god... no wonder it plows in the turns. Get a 26mm rear sway bar and change your front bar to a 21/22mm sway bar and that will give you pretty much a neutral handling setup. Go to http://www.shobrosgarage.com for a really good assortment of SHO stuff... some of it stock, most of it not . The SHO did NOT come with a strut tower brace stock. You may want to replace the struts/springs with... well, you have to keep it stock so I'd find a low mileage SHO in a junkyard and rob its struts/springs. Obviously weight loss is not a concern... if you're running a 2700lb ATX, that's damned impressive.

I don't know much about Diablo chips but there are ways of tuning the engine. you can get a TwEECer (http://www.shonutperformance.com/) and that will help tremendously.

What are the limitations on mods? I ask because I live by the phrase (coined possibly by Smokey Yunick?), "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'!" If you let us know what they look for, we can tell you what to do that they won't find .

Have fun with that car, it will serve you well!

 

[PAracer]

Custom made subframe bushings with offset holes. Moving the subframe shifts the lower suspension mounting point, which will alter camber.

The missing rear sway bar is holding you back. You could try disableing the front bar, but that could cause the front left to lose forward bite.

 

[drivinhard]

Yes, jack the subframe as far to the right as you can, move the upper plate on the right side as far in as you can.

And get a big rear bar on the back of that thing! No wonder it plows like crazy, can't imagine how it was even turning without one. I'd considering running without a front sway bar to.

are those just taurus steel wheels on there? see if you can find some j-yard thunderchicken or volvo wheels, basically, something wider than 6" that you probably got on there now. what's the limit on tire types, etc? you'll want as much stick as you can get

good luck!

 

[SASHO91]

try and find a GenI SHO 89-91.. they have the biggest stock bar at 26mm...

allthough, you do have a good assortment of rear sway bars to try as well.

What strut/springs are you using? Are you only allowed stock parts/stock replacement parts?

 

[PAracer]

From what I read, the rules are pretty prohibitive. Steel wheels only, no larger than stock. Street tires only, 60 aspect ratio minimum, 235 width max. 300 treadwear. Me thinks they want you to slide around a bit.

These rules should push you toward a spring and shock combo that is on the soft side, and extreme camber angles.

Your car is very light, even for being an auto. You are in good shape considering the rules. Right on the limit, and a large footprint to try to pass. Get a sway bar, and watch the competition disappear in the rear view. Watch out for a ban on the SHO for the next season.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

I just watched the video...

I love how you can hear the Yamaha V6 over every other car out there.... no matter where it is on the track

 

[SASHO91]

yeah, that's just sweet...

 

[drivinhard]

I'd stick to 215's on the 6" wheel then, going wider (rubber) isn't going to gain any grip. I would imagine though, that a 16x7" steel wheel would fit under the radar no problem as it's not at all a "wide" size, with most of the other cars probably at that, or wider. Was there an available 16x7" steel thunderchicken wheel?

All 300 wear tires aren't the same (IIRC that's a internal rating from a manu comparing it, to other tires in it's own line), so start doing research on which ones stick the best. The old Nitto NT450's were 300 IIRC, and would probably get about as sticky as you can get for a 300. Also Falken Ziex ZE-512 might be worth a look.

Shave 'em and treat 'em

 

[Shoaz]

Not much to add to what has already been said other than you can do a lot of tweaking/balancing with the large array of swaybar sizes that are "stock".

Here's a good reference:

http://www.panix.com/~awinbow/sho/suspension.html

Since you're stuck with an open diff in the ATX you probably want to stay away from any stiff front bars...it might even be worth considering running no front bar and a mid-sized rear bar. Like I say, there's a good menu of bar sizes to pick from for experimenting, but you definitely need to get a rear bar in there to get it to turn. The 26mm is the biggest "stock" rear bar, but it may wind up being too loose (depending on the rest of the car) and depending on the front bar size. The 23mm rear bar is harder to find, if you can get one, snag it, they're good to have around, especially if you want to try running with no front bar.

Looks like fun, though! The SHO should do well for ya there.

Keep an eye on the ATX tranny, though, they're not the strongest link in the chain. Might be good to keep a spare one of those around, too.

 

[SASHO91]

And to add to Eric's post, an external trans cooler (if not yet equip'd) will go a long ways.... They do have one from the factory(what car doesn't) but I would try and swap in a higher rated cooler, and/or double it up and add another cooler in-line. Also, you could replace the stock lines with bigger lines as well.

Im not too sure on all the guidlines... but these seem to be reasonable.... but then again, when are racing officials reasonable...

 

[naval-avi8or]

No one mentioned subframe connectors.

 

[NotSoSlowSHO]

Thats because he cannot run them according to the rule/regs

 

[1slickRED89]

that was an awesome video!! you basically schooled that firebird. you got almost a two cars on him each straightaway.

also the Taurus has MANY spring rates to choose from, stock. between the 4 banger and the 4 V6s over the 9 year run of the model, you have plenty to choose from.

also if the brakes are stock, look at the brakes off of a 94/95 Taurus or 96+, they may let you get deeper in the corner before stabbing the pedal. they have a larger rotor and more surface area on the pad. if you can use the subframe off of a 96+ Taurus you can use the trick aluminum knuckles and true "A-arm" lower control arm, instead of the goofy tension strut on the car now.

 

[HotRodKid]

big bore butterflies...a very sneaky mod to have and since they use stockhousings the mod cant be seen

have the intake machined down where it meets the heads, install phenolic spacers, sand spacers to the shape of the intake.epoxy them to the intake, paint, reinstall intake ... less intake heat

oh yea ...clean the intake inside .....everything .... all that intake + all that turbulance causing garbage = lost power

pull the valve covers and reshim all the valves, theres no hydraulic adjusters in this engine, its a direct cam on valve setup, to much play results in lost valve lift , which effects HP

do yourrod bearings andcrank bearings, wont ad hp, but will keep things intact

pull your coil pack and make sure all cylinders fire full strength

replace the wires .... yes you will hate the job .... but its a good place to find power (do it when the intake is of for cleaning)

clean your plug wells ... the seals tend to leak, which can cause misfires, even if you dont notice it

donno what else ...

 

[CircleTrackSHO]

That is some serious weight reduction! Stock ATX (BTW, no ATX's in 92, so it must be a 93,94 or 95) is around 3600lbs. So you lost over 1000lbs?? Are the doors just skins? Impressive.

Your right on the year, my bad.. double checked it this morning and it is a 94. Right out of the gate showing off my total Newb status. The doors are skinned... as is the truck and hood. Stock tank is gone, replaced with a 4 gal cell. Dash is completely gone, the stock cluster zip tied atop the steering column (that will get improved, but it works for now)

For starters, ditch the chip. More than likely it is doing more harm than good. There is very little engine performance gain to be had with a chip. And if it is better shifts (having an ATX) you are after, look to proper chip. <snip> Strut tower braces did NOT come factory.

One thing that should be pointed out is we don't shift. I put the car in the 2nd and leave it there... at the 1/4 mile track we'll run on next Friday Night we'll run it in first. I was hitting 6200 rpm at the end of the straights... if I didn't have to back off so much on the straights, I'd probably get it up to 6800. Is there a rev limiter ? Bummer on the strut tower brace.

you're running with no rear sway bar? My god... no wonder it plows in the turns. Go to http://www.shobrosgarage.com for a really good assortment of SHO stuff... some of it stock, most of it not . The SHO did NOT come with a strut tower brace stock. You may want to replace the struts/springs with... well, you have to keep it stock so I'd find a low mileage SHO in a junkyard and rob its struts/springs. I don't know much about Diablo chips but there are ways of tuning the engine. you can get a TwEECer (http://www.shonutperformance.com/) and that will help tremendously. What are the limitations on mods? I ask because I live by the phrase (coined possibly by Smokey Yunick?), "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'!" If you let us know what they look for, we can tell you what to do that they won't find .

Now that's what I'm talking about.. Pirate !! One thing about the rules, they say "stock appearing" which in racing terms means a loophole the size of Texas. I don't want to go whole hog right now, because, well, basically.. I think if I can get this thing to turn I got the field covered right now. I'd rather not get my car banned... so I'm thinking, win without killing them, add more mods if they start catching up. Back to the subject of Springs.. I'm completely stock to the best of my knowledge.. used race car, but he didn't mention spring modification so I'll assume they are stock. What is the difference between the Diablo and the Tweecer ?

Custom made subframe bushings with offset holes. Moving the subframe shifts the lower suspension mounting point, which will alter camber. The missing rear sway bar is holding you back. You could try disableing the front bar, but that could cause the front left to lose forward bite.

This sounds like a real good idea.. can you expand on it just a bit for me ?

try and find a GenI SHO 89-91.. they have the biggest stock bar at 26mm... all though, you do have a good assortment of rear sway bars to try as well. What strut/springs are you using? Are you only allowed stock parts/stock replacement parts?

"Stock Appearing", so a set of Koni's painted orange and screaming "look at me, I'm an expensive after market part" is probably going to get me yanked into the tech garage. But if its subtle and not an obvious performance part and its "stock appearing" then its worthy of consideration.

 

[CircleTrackSHO]

From what I read, the rules are pretty prohibitive. Steel wheels only, no larger than stock. Street tires only, 60 aspect ratio minimum, 235 width max. 300 treadwear. Me thinks they want you to slide around a bit. These rules should push you toward a spring and shock combo that is on the soft side, and extreme camber angles. Your car is very light, even for being an auto. You are in good shape considering the rules. Right on the limit, and a large footprint to try to pass. Get a sway bar, and watch the competition disappear in the rear view. Watch out for a ban on the SHO for the next season.

Don't say the B-Word.. I've been racing these tracks for 2 years.. never seen them disallow a steel wheel yet. Factory Steel wheels have a very obvious design, yet I've seen many other ones on cars, so again.. "stock appearing" isn't "stock"

I just watched the video... I love how you can hear the Yamaha V6 over every other car out there.... no matter where it is on the track

Sounds really good from behind the wheel as well !

I'd stick to 215's on the 6" wheel then, going wider (rubber) isn't going to gain any grip. I would imagine though, that a 16x7" steel wheel would fit under the radar no problem as it's not at all a "wide" size, with most of the other cars probably at that, or wider. Was there an available 16x7" steel thunderchicken wheel? All 300 wear tires aren't the same (IIRC that's a internal rating from a manu comparing it, to other tires in it's own line), so start doing research on which ones stick the best. The old Nitto NT450's were 300 IIRC, and would probably get about as sticky as you can get for a 300. Also Falken Ziex ZE-512 might be worth a look. Shave 'em and treat 'em

It has been my experience that the Sumitomo HTR200 is the best tire for circle track rating.. very soft and sticky, yet they have a 51 psi rating, which lets you run them quite hard. Prevents roll over in the corners and they are very predictable tires. And at $46 each, they are a great value. That being said, I'd love to hear other tire stories, I also think that going to a wider tire might not be all bad. I think I might have to go to a 16" tire (I'm running 15" on the 3/8th mile) when I go to the 1/4 mile track, I'm worried about over revving the engine in 1st gear.

Not much to add to what has already been said other than you can do a lot of tweaking/balancing with the large array of swaybar sizes that are "stock". Here's a good reference: http://www.panix.com/~awinbow/sho/suspension.html

Since you're stuck with an open diff in the ATX you probably want to stay away from any stiff front bars...it might even be worth considering running no front bar and a mid-sized rear bar. Like I say, there's a good menu of bar sizes to pick from for experimenting, but you definitely need to get a rear bar in there to get it to turn. The 26mm is the biggest "stock" rear bar, but it may wind up being too loose (depending on the rest of the car) and depending on the front bar size. The 23mm rear bar is harder to find, if you can get one, snag it, they're good to have around, especially if you want to try running with no front bar. Looks like fun, though! The SHO should do well for ya there. Keep an eye on the ATX tranny, though, they're not the strongest link in the chain. Might be good to keep a spare one of those around, too.

Speaking of "open differential" is there a LSD for a SHO ? I think that would be an incredible performance enhancer.. I think your right on about losing the front sway bar.. on our 4-Cylinder racer, we got rid of the front sway bar right away. It feels funny to feel the body pitch, but the tires stay on the ground and the car really turned better and got off the corners better once it was gone. I am very worried about the ATX. I actually work in the Ford Livonia Transmission Plant.. I don't work for Ford, I'm a supplier, but I have heard the AXN4 nightwares... though, I also know where there are 1000's of parts in various stages of production which are still sitting on abandoned machines

And to add to Eric's post, an external trans cooler (if not yet equip'd) will go a long ways.... They do have one from the factory(what car doesn't) but I would try and swap in a higher rated cooler, and/or double it up and add another cooler in-line. Also, you could replace the stock lines with bigger lines as well. Im not too sure on all the guidelines... but these seem to be reasonable.... but then again, when are racing officials reasonable...

A transcooler is #2 on the shopping list after the rear sway bar.

 

[CircleTrackSHO]

No one mentioned subframe connectors.

Can you expand on this for me...

that was an awesome video!! you basically schooled that firebird. you got almost a two cars on him each straightaway.

also the Taurus has MANY spring rates to choose from, stock. between the 4 banger and the 4 V6s over the 9 year run of the model, you have plenty to choose from.

also if the brakes are stock, look at the brakes off of a 94/95 Taurus or 96+, they may let you get deeper in the corner before stabbing the pedal. they have a larger rotor and more surface area on the pad. if you can use the subframe off of a 96+ Taurus you can use the trick aluminum knuckles and true "A-arm" lower control arm, instead of the goofy tension strut on the car now.

It was actually a Chrysler New Yorker with the 3.5 H.O. motor.. he's been kicking my ass when I was in the Grand Prix and this week was a real wake up call for him. In my FWD Circle Track Experience... I thought something in the 400# on the RF, 650# on the RR, and about 300# on the LS would be a good spring set up. Anyone with any feedback ?

big bore butterflies...a very sneaky mod to have and since they use stockhousings the mod cant be seen

have the intake machined down where it meets the heads, install phenolic spacers, sand spacers to the shape of the intake.epoxy them to the intake, paint, reinstall intake ... less intake heat

oh yea ...clean the intake inside .....everything .... all that intake + all that turbulance causing garbage = lost power

pull the valve covers and reshim all the valves, theres no hydraulic adjusters in this engine, its a direct cam on valve setup, to much play results in lost valve lift , which effects HP

do your rod bearings and crank bearings, wont ad hp, but will keep things intact

pull your coil pack and make sure all cylinders fire full strength

replace the wires .... yes you will hate the job .... but its a good place to find power (do it when the intake is of for cleaning)

clean your plug wells ... the seals tend to leak, which can cause misfires, even if you dont notice it

donno what else ...

Now that right there is some rock solid advice !